Talk:List of Piedmont blues musicians

Sara Martin

I am not familiar with her music, but the article about her does not mention Piedmont blues. Is it appropriate to list her in this category? Jwicklatz (talk) 04:21, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

If her article doesn't mention Piedmont blues, and you also don't know her music, what in the world makes you think she belongs here? Anyway, I just listened to some of it on youtube and it's definatly not Piedmont. 24.173.0.66 (talk) 15:58, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Drink Small

The article about him describes him as an electric blues and soul blues musician. Is it appropriate to inlcude him in the list of Piedmont blues musicians? Jwicklatz (talk) 05:50, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

No... Have you listened to him? I don't mean to be rude but I don't think you understand what piedmont blues is or sounds like. It seems like you are just picking random blues people you have heard of, some you have never listened to and are recommending them for this page... The top of the article has an accurate description of what defines the piedmont style, if you have read it, it obviously disqualifies both of these suggestions, and I'm worried many of the others you have added to the page without understanding what the style is. 24.173.0.66 (talk) 16:10, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

I apologize, I thought you were suggesting adding them, and I now realize, looking at the revision history that you were actually suggesting it was improper to add them. I agree. 24.173.0.66 (talk) 21:12, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Drink Small has now been removed from this article's list. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 14:26, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Please understand what Piedmont blues is before adding to this page

People who belong on this page, are people who play Piedmont style guitar. If you can't recognize the style, you shouldn't recommending artists here. Actual Piedmont artists are somewhat rare, because delta blues music had more success, and having the list flooded non-Piedmont players is not good. What makes a style is somewhat subjective but there are some specific qualifiers. And just because a musician came from in and around the Piedmont region does not make them a player of the Piedmont style. The style is properly defined in the intro to the article, but musicians are being added who do not fit the accurate description the article contains. First, it is mainly (or purely?) a guitar style, most of these artists who are just singers or harp/piano players definitely do not belong here. Secondly the guitar style has specific characteristics, including an alternating-octave bass pattern played by the thumb. I'd argue if you don't hear that alternating bass, it definitely does not belong here, it's probably delta blues or some other. Third, Piedmont blues characteristically has ragtime-style syncopation over that alternating thumb bass rhythm. If a song has that delta "dun duh-dun duh-dun" shuffle it probably does not belong here.

Listen to Elizabeth Cotten and Mississippi John Hurt (who isn't even from the Piedmont but definitely plays Piedmont style). Listen to Etta James. Listen to the fingerpicking style of Arlo Guthrie's Alice's Restaurant. Hear the alternating bass and the way the solid syncopated rhythm defines the sound. If you don't hear that in another musician they probably don't belong here.

I do not mean to be very presumtious about this, I am not a music historian, I am just going by how I have consistently seen Piedmont blues defined, around the internet, in the "Piedmont Blues" WP page, and the intro at the top of this page. If someone comes along and says "hey, you're an idiot, this or that is also Piedmont because of X" I'd be interested to hear that. 24.173.0.66 (talk) 16:22, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

I listened to every artist on this list and here are the ones that I DO NOT think belong on this page:

• Memphis Willie B
• Barbecue Bob (although his own article calls him a Piedmont player, i find it questionable)
• Scrapper Blackwell (his own article calls him a Piedmont player, though no source is cited, I'm realizing this is a huge web of error on all these articles)
• Carolina Slim (his article calls him a Piedmont player, the source is an allmusic link, which itself has no source for this claim, and even says he was influenced by Lightnin' Hopkins which is clearly true, he sounds just like LH, but LH is about as far as you can get from anything resembling the ragtime-syncopated-alternating-thumb-bassline Piedmont blues.... what a mess)
• Cortelia Clark
• Jaybird Coleman is a harmonica player, I can't see how it could be classified with Piedmont guitar fingerpicking, unless it's only because of his association with jug bands that have some kind of fingerpicking.
• Bo Weavil Jackson
• Charley Lincoln (like his brother Barbecue Bob, I find calling it Piedmont fingerpicking a stretch. Also the notes say he played with his brother from the 20s to the 50s, and his brother died in 31)
• Sara Martin
• Dan Pickett (again his WP article calls him a Piedmont player, cited to an allmusic link with no sources. I sampled several songs and none sound Piedmont)
• Drink Small
• Curley Weaver (doesn't sound Piedmont to me, but his WP says he played Piedmont in his early career so maybe I'm just not finding the right songs)
• Josh White (WP article calls him a Piedmont player, I can't find any Piedmont songs bug his article says he played lots of different things, so maybe)

all the others I was able to find at least one song which at least somewhat sounds like Piedmont fingerpicking 24.173.0.66 (talk) 20:48, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

All of the above is very illuminating but it represents one editor's viewpoint. The point being that editor's own thoughts/ideas/preferences are fine when expressed on an article talk page, but is not what Wikipedia requires when placing musicians in a list (or any other article for that matter). The overriding consideration, and I copy precisely the wording within WP:RS, which states:

Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published sources, making sure that all majority and significant minority views that have appeared in those sources are covered (see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view). If no reliable sources can be found on a topic, Wikipedia should not have an article on it.

The guideline in this page discusses the reliability of various types of sources. The policy on sourcing is Wikipedia:Verifiability, which requires inline citations for any material challenged or likely to be challenged, and for all quotations. The policy is strictly applied to all material in the mainspace—articles, lists, and sections of articles—without exception, and in particular to biographies of living persons, which states:

Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion.

In the event of a contradiction between this guideline and our policies regarding sourcing and attribution, the policies take priority and editors should seek to resolve the discrepancy. Other policies relevant to sourcing are Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. For questions about the reliability of particular sources, see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard.

I have now added a considerable number of reliable references, from different sources, which should help clarify a particular musician's suitability for inclusion in this article/list. It does not matter if someone posting here disagrees with the cited source, as they are deemed more reliable than editor(s) personal preferences in every case. For further information please read WP:V. Thanks,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 14:14, 23 May 2019 (UTC)