Talk:List of LGBT firsts by year/Archive 1

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Archive 1

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I hope my update to the description satisfies this request. Duuude007 (talk) 18:22, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

hmmm

I'd edit it myself but I don't want to bother with an account and I know how uncouth it is to edit things without signing in. I just want to mention that the wording on 'Klaus Wowereit' is odd. I don't think he was the first openly gay german. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.170.13.114 (talk) 01:38, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Bisexual?

Maybe we should change it to just gay and lesbian? Bisexual is completely different and should be put in its own article. Juppiter (talk) 03:31, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


LGBT is the term that unifies this particular minority. Therefore its retention is still valid. Duuude007 (talk) 20:20, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, Although it's a communities of sexuality and gender minorities. As the content groaw a split may make sense but we're a ways away from that. -- Banjeboi 03:06, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Untitled

I like this idea.

This might be a good template for this list List of persons considered father or mother of a field Scarykitty (talk) 02:12, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

The problem with this list is, the majority of the firsts are political. There's very few from other fields. 82.141.67.102 (talk) 06:41, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Are firsts being confused with notables?

Alexander the Great may be a very notable bisexual person, but I have a difficult time seeing how "person to simultaneously be Basileus of Macedon, Hegemon of the Hellenic League, Pharaoh of Egypt and Shahanshah of Persia" is a particularly helpful category to use -- if I define my categories narrowly enough, I can produce almost anything as a first. Seems like a timeline of major LGBT figures rather than a timeline of LGBT firsts would be a better place for him. At least the degree of specification should be made less fine-grained here..."first known bisexual national leader" (if he is; not sure about that) might be more helpful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark7-2 (talk • contribs) 03:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the above sentiment. It's bordering on ridiculous for the description to remain as it is. It's unlikely for anyone to be Basileus of Macedon, Hegemon of the Hellenic League, Pharaoh of Egypt and Shahanshah of Persia previous to or ever again at the same time, queer identified or not. This should be restructured to a broader categorization where he still fits as a first. If no such title can be found, then it should be removed.

I'd have to wonder about this too, seeing the listing for James Randi: Notable yes, but the first out gay sceptic? I'd say Derren Brown, but even that may be pushing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.242.189.254 (talk) 00:35, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, this list is rather silly. A lot of the entries are too narrow, and hardly interesting in a setting like this. Harvey Milk for example being 'only' first California elect. is easily the most notable person, yet possibly doesn't belong on this particular list. I propose a complete rewrite.Martinor (talk) 14:01, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Did Maureen Colquhoun not pre-date Chris Smith MP and who was the first MP to be selected and elected as gay? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.227.92 (talk) 20:39, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes Maureen Colquhoun did pre-date Chris Smith but she was outed whereas he came out voluntarily. Wilmot1 (talk) 13:14, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Items flagged as 'dubious'

Some items have been flagged as 'dubious' (I counted 3 at least two of which are in no way dubious). Unless these can be justified could they please be removed? Wilmot1 (talk) 13:22, 18 November 2011 (UTC)


Obama

The item "President Barack Obama and Vice President Biden came out in favor of gay marriage" is certainly interesting but it doesn't contain the word "first". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.162.101.50 (talk) 13:02, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

split out trans?

I wonder if it might make sense to separate out firsts for trans/intersex as opposed to sexuality-based firsts. It seems societal reactions are quite different for trans vs homosexuals for example, and a trans timeline may look quite different than a gay one.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 14:44, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

We should consider trimming out some "firsts"

I believe that to make this article less US-centric, and to make sure that the list doesn't eventually become too long, we should consider trimming out some "firsts" from this list that fall under certain criteria:

  • First gay state legislators of states in countries that have already had gay legislators — It's important to include the first ever gay state legislator of a country, but do we really need to add one for all states with a gay legislator? If so, we'd eventually end up with dozens of U.S. entries, and hundreds if not thousands more from other countries on this one article.
  • Comments made by people — for example, the use of the word "gay" by President Obama in a speech. In the scope of his presidency, it's not really meaningful. It actually seems really trivial to me.
  • Other trivial "firsts" — like, the lesbians on the cover of the lesbian magazine The Ladder in 1964. By that time, there were already lesbian magazines. And there were already pictures of lesbians. This just happened to combine the two. Trinitresque (talk) 17:36, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
I concur. I also wonder to what extent the "firsts-in-a-country" are useful for a list such as this. Shouldn't we rather have "firsts" globally speaking, and focus on those - e.g. instead of "First head of state that is gay in Iceland", why not "first head of state that is gay"? Otherwise you will eventually have 200 "firsts" for any given "first".--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 16:45, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
I also agree. I think it might make sense to specify the first LGBT head of state under a parliametary system, and later the first popularly elected LGBT head of state and the first LGBT hereditary head of state, if those come to pass. But we should focus on global firsts: the first LGBT mayor, globally; the first LGBT state legislator, globally; the first LGBT governor or governor-equivalent, globally; etc, only repeating similar entries if there is a legitimate difference in the type of office, such as governor-equivalents that are appointed by a superior head of state as opposed to those that are elected. We should not cite any "firsts" that rely on geographic qualifiers. I also think that we shouldn't cite the first gay man to do something if a lesbian has already done it, or vice-versa, because being gay is the same thing whether it's a man or a woman who identifies as such; additional entries for first bisexual person and first transgender person (and first intersex, queer, etc person) would also be appropriate. We need to remove the many items that don't reflect "firsts" at all, such as marriages in US states years after gay marriages have happened in the US. --DavidK93 (talk) 19:19, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
You may get pushback on the first gay man vs first lesbian woman thing though, since we have a whole category of lists of the first time a woman did something. However, I would support it - if it was a first for "women", it can go in the women's first list, and if it was a first for gay/lesbian people, it can go here. But I think we should also look for extended coverage. I'm quite sure every week there is a first time that (person of identity X) (in place Y) (does thing Z), but we need to focus on the truly notable events, e.g. those which have received sustained and diverse coverage that NOTES the importance of this first.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 19:25, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

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Mormon magazine

I've commented this part out:

===1912===

  • The first explicit reference to lesbianism in a Mormon magazine occurred when the "Young Woman's Journal" paid tribute to "Sappho of Lesbos".[1]

Apart from the fact that "first mention in a Mormon magazine" seems like a very minor first, referencing Sappho's poetry isn't automatically a "reference to lesbianism". Per Sappho#Sexuality and community, "During the Victorian era, it became fashionable to describe Sappho as the headmistress of a girls' finishing school. As Page DuBois (among many other experts) points out, this attempt at making Sappho understandable and palatable to the genteel classes of Great Britain was based more on conservative sensibilities than evidence." I'd imagine that it's quite plausible Mormons would view her in a similar way. The reference given (archive.org mirror) doesn't provide any context - does anyone have any idea whether this was actually an "LGBT first"? Smurrayinchester 09:19, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Gay & Lesbian Mormons. Affirmation. Retrieved 2010-11-30.

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Don't Ask, Don't Tell

I only see one mention of this, what about the repeal and the first person to be openly gay/lesbian in the military? People are still coming out in the US military, some have been in a long term relationship for decades. If the person doesn't want to be mentioned by name (or is unknown), perhaps a note with the year of repealing and saying that it was the first time people could come out? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.1.58.47 (talk) 02:31, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

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First gay character on US television

All in the Family, Season 1, Episode 5, Feb 9, 1971, "Judging Books by Covers," Archie's friend Steve is gay

Mary Tyler Moore Show, Season 3, Episode 17, Jan. 13, 1973, "My Brother's Keeper," Phyllis' brother Ben is gay 173.54.94.230 (talk) 01:14, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

First married gay couple on TV (possibly just on US TV)

The current internet buzz is that the first married gay couple on TV was on an animated TV series called Mission Hill. At different points in its production history the show aired on Fox, then WB, then Adult Swim. I've personally seen the episode (both on original broadcast & afterward). The episode where the couple is confirmed to be married aired in 2001 & won an award from GLAAD at the time. The episode is called "Plan 9 from Mission Hill (or I Married a Gay Man from Outer Space)." When trying to learn more I found a large number of listicles that don't mention the show, but try to claim that the later broadcast "Modern Family" (which aired far later) had the first gay married couple. That simply is not true, & having this list reflect reality would be helpful in combating the error. 2600:1702:1560:A5B0:206D:6151:76A:DE67 (talk) 09:05, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

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