Talk:Librarians in popular culture

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Librarians With Blogs[edit]

Since this is about librarians in popular culture, and since the blogosphere is now in the popular culture, should this article include a list of prominent librarian blogs? If so, I suggest they be listed alphabetically without reference to the political stances of the various librarians. And by prominent I mean blogs getting viewed regularly, not rarely visited blogs. And to judge this I use the Netcraft Antiphishing Toolbar. How about it? --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling 14:10, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The anti-phishing toolbar isn't a measure of popularity that is commonly accepted. We have Google Page Rank, Technorati rank, A9 rank and a bunch of other tools at our disposal. I think the popular culture term here commonly means "movies, tv and mainstream media" so I think a set of blog listsings on this page would be problematic but perhaps a good list on its own page? I don't feel super strongly about this, but the anti-phishing toolbar isn't a goodmetric for popularity or ranking, that much I do know. Jessamyn (talk) 14:34, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. Skip it then. Thanks. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling 14:44, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have to admit, I'm a little bit upset that my valid (though a few seconds late) edit was deleted as vandalism. I don't believe that the following is vandalism:

On the May 24, 2007 episode of the same show, Colbert interviewed Wikipedia co-founder Jimmy Wales. During the interview, he showed on the screen the statement "Librarians are hiding something" and asked Wales how he would stop or prevent vandalism to Wikipedia based on that statement.

I think that the fact that Colbert was interviewing Wales when he called for the vandalism is entirely relevant to the article and should be added. SQFreak 04:05, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Current discussion[edit]

...is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Librarians in popular culture (3rd nomination). Her Pegship (tis herself) 16:29, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

The following articles may have useful information that could be cited in this article:

  • Grant Burns, "Librarians in Fiction: a critical bibliography" (Jefferson, NC, McFarland, 1998)
  • Stephen Walker and V. Lonnie Lawson "The librarian stereotype and the movies" MC Journal v. 1, no. 1 (1993):17
  • Katherine M. Heylman "Librarians in Juvenile Fiction" School Library Journal (May 1975) 25:28
  • Doug Highsmith, "The long strange trip of Barbara Gordon: images of librarians in comic books" The Reference Librarian 78 (2002): 61-83
  • Elaine Yontz, "Librarians in children's literature, 1909-2000" The Reference Librarian 78 (2002) 85-96 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeborah (talk • contribs) 08:19, 16 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And also:

  • Brown-Seyed, Christopher and Charles Barnard Sands. “Librarians in Fiction: A Discussion.” Education Libraries 21 (1997).
  • Cowden, Dami D., Sue Viders, and Caro Lafever. The Complete Writer’s Guide to Heroes and Heroines: 16 Master Archetypes. Hollywood, CA: Lone Eagle Publishing Company, 2000.
  • Filstrup, Jane Merril. “The Shattered Calm: Libraries in Detective Fiction parts I and II.” Wilson Library Bulletin 53 (1978): 320-327 cont. in 53 (1979): 392-398.
  • Frylinck, John and Janice Oliver. Looks in Books: Images of Librarians in Literature, 1945-1990. Perth: Curtin University of Technology Library, 1990.
  • Grimes, Deborah J. “Marian the Librarian, the Truth Behind the Image.” Discovering Librarians: Profiles of a Profession. Ed. Mary Jane Scherdin. Chicago, IL: Association of College and Research Libraries, ALA, 1994.
  • Hall, Alison. “Batgirl was a Librarian.” Canadian Library Journal 49 (1992): 345-347.
  • Moynahan, Julian. “Librarians: Novels and Novelists.” American Libraries (1974): 550-553.
  • Noble, John. “From Tom Pinch to Highliber Zavora: the Librarian in Fiction.” Orana November 2001: 23-28.
  • Olen, ST. “The Image of Librarians in Modern Fiction.” Mousaion 5 (1987): 48-57.
  • Pankin, Mary Faith Pusey. “Librarians in Mystery Stories.” West Virginia Libraries 31 (1978): 11-18.
  • Radford, Marie L. and Gary P. “Power, Knowledge, and Fear: Feminism, Foucault, and the Stereotype of the Female Librarian.” Library Quarterly 67 (1997): 250-266.
  • Sapp, Gregg. “The Librarian as a Main Character: A Professional Sampler.” Wilson Library Bulletin 61 (1987): 28-33.
  • Schuman, Patricia Glass. “The Image of Librarians: Substance of Shadow?” Journal of Academic Librarianship 16 (1990): 86.
  • Valenza, Joyce. “Just a Librarian? Who Do They Think We Are?” Book Report 15 (1996): 15-17.

--Zeborah 07:04, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(Striking out references I've consulted/used. --Zeborah 08:59, 19 October 2007 (UTC))[reply]

By Topic, Not By Medium[edit]

As long as this article is arranged by movies, television, literature, video games, etc., deletionists will challenge that it is just a list, since the tendency is to add "I saw a librarian here" without saying anything about the character or public perception. I suggest rearranging the article by topic, listing and commenting on each old stereotype in turn (shushing, glasses, etc.), and then the various modern perceptions (helpful, trendy, high-tech), commenting on its effect on librarians and library users. The article should be based on ideas in the cited references; selected examples from the list of librarians can be used to illustrate a point, but not as original research. GUllman 17:09, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I see your point. OTOH, the references I've found do primarily look at it according to genre - see above: by fiction, movies, comic books. Given this, it feels a lot more natural (and, to be honest, it's a heck of a lot easier) to arrange the article the same way. I've got a long weekend so I'm about to spend a couple hours doing more research in view of adding more prose to the thing. I haven't been bold enough yet to delete all the list stuff, but if/when there's sufficient prose to stand alone I will. If there's nothing formatted in lists, that should reduce the temptation to add extra random examples. --Zeborah 06:27, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

removals[edit]

some of the recent removals seem to be influenced by personal opinion. If the person is significant in the plot of a notable work, its worth including. If it's the iconic representation of an attitude, ditto. "Marion the Librarian" is a good example of what should not have been removed. I'll be adding a few of them back. DGG (talk) 06:27, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I made the removals, and they were influenced by the poor formatting of the article and lack of justification for many entries. A huge number of the video game entries were just "{Character name} from {video game}". Some were even "Unnamed librarian from {video game}". These are NOT significant characters in notable works, they're unnecessary filler. This article does not need to be an exhaustive list of every librarian ever mentioned in any media. The DaVinci Code entry under novels doesn't even mention a librarian, it just says the characters visit a library! I may have been overzealous when it came to Marian, but I was actually cutting the second reference to The Music Man in that section of the article. Even the notable librarians listed here are badly explained and often badly written. The entry for Philadelphia makes it sound like a kindly librarian offered a sick man a private room for his own comfort. I had corrected this and several other problems with the article in the revision that you reverted. I guess I'll just have to revert it back again now. If anyone feels that a truly significant librarian character has been cut they are welcome to add it back in, but please don't just put the character name and title of the work. CKarnstein (talk) 20:49, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
CK, it wasnt I who did the reverting--I just commented here. I talk first, not just revert, when it seems its not wholly unreasonable. I prefer that to BRD. DGG (talk) 05:48, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry DGG, I saw the anonymous revert and assumed it must be you not logged in. My mistake. CKarnstein (talk) 15:14, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'd actually be fine with all the lists being deleted, and only keeping things that have been cited in a source outside the original context. (I won't do it myself until I can add in more things that have been cited.) But your edits - among some things that are reasonable - actually remove things that have been cited; that is, you're removing some of the only lists that are actually defensible under strict notability guidelines - and in the process seriously misrepresenting Ann Seidl's work. ("female movie librarians are usually unmarried, prim and introverted" does not mean the same as "Movie librarians are usually prim single women" even if 'introverted' is left out. Moreover, and worse, you make it sound as if her documentary was only about the positive portrayals, when it was primarily about the negative ones.) You've also removed the quote from "Librarian: Quest for the Spear" which bears directly on stereotypes of librarians and is the only thing making that entry mildly more encyclopaedic than the rest of the list. So while a lot of your other edits make very good sense, a lot damage the article, and given the sheer number of those it's not very fair to put the onus on us of trying to sort out which is which. --I'll try anyway, after lunch; if you've got any problems with any of my edits can you please discuss it here on the talk page before reverting? --Zeborah (talk) 00:47, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't put any onus on you. We are all freely choosing to work on this article, and I am sure we all want to make it better even if we don't always agree on what "better" is. As for me, I certainly did not intend to misrepresent Ann Seidl, and I must disagree with your interpretation of my revisions. My changes to that section were merely my attempt to revise some very bad writing. Are there well-rounded characters inside the body of Shirley Jones? Is it a stereotype that librarians often say "Do you want me to draw you a map?" Well, that's what the section says. And I must admit, I cannot see what is at all noteworthy or defensible about entries like "One of L. R. Wright's crime series features a librarian as partner of the lead detective." There's no source, there's no justification, there's not even enough information to tell a curious reader which books this unnamed librarian appears in. It does more damage to the readability and helpfulness of the article to leave list-padding entries like this in than it does to leave a few potentially useful entries out. CKarnstein (talk) 04:41, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My comment re you putting the onus on us was because, even though you admitted that you "may have been overzealous when it came to Marian" you simply reverted everything, including that piece of overzealousness. That something is badly written (in fact badly edited: the article was up for deletion at the time and I was pulling things already present into stuff I was writing new in a hurry; not that this is the point) is not a reason to remove it entirely. L.R.Wright would be another case of me editing in a hurry, leaving out details because I was focused on making it clear why it's easily as important as anything else in the list. --Even if no more notable than anything else in the list. One day when I have plenty of time I'd like to get enough stuff written for each of the sections on the page, with examples referred to in sources specifically about librarians in popular culture, that we could get rid the unsourced lists entirely. But I want to write the good stuff before removing the cruft: partly because this is how my mind works; partly because parts of the cruft may get mentioned in sources and then we'll have all the wikilinks and dates and details already there, saving work; partly because some people get annoyed if you delete stuff without replacing it with anything better, and even if I don't agree with them I can see their point. --Zeborah (talk) 05:28, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, I did not. If you look at the history, you'll see my edit summary was "reverted back to my last revision, but with Marion [sic] the Librarian added back in". I put back exactly the same text about Marian as had been there previously, I just moved her down to the chronological list of librarian characters. As for the entries I removed, most did NOT have dates or details, and some did not even have wikilinks. Others did contain details, but the details themselves indicated that the librarian characters were not truly notable (e.g. The Avengers entry). That was why I removed them in the first place. Replacing these entries with better entries would have made the lists if anything longer, but this wouldn't be much improvement as they were excessive already. Anything that's ever been in the article is still saved in the history, so keeping unimportant entries around just in case they someday become noteworthy is silly. But if you'd rather have a crufty article then be my guest. It's dawning on me that a more efficient use of my time would be simply voting to delete excessively crufty articles rather than trying to improve them. I don't care enough to keep pushing this rock up the hill just to see it roll down again. CKarnstein (talk) 15:12, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
as this is one of the more rationally discussed articles of its sort, it would be a shame for anyone to give up on it. suggestion--apart from removing, there may be some notable ones not yet identified. DGG (talk) 03:07, 30 November 2007 (UTC)::The 'Avengers' entry has the advantage that it describes a specific instance of a librarian stereotype. No, I would not rather have a crufty article; I even said I'd rather not have a crufty article; what's more I said I'd rather delete all the lists in their entirety but that first I want the rest of the article to stand on its own. Yes, everything's always saved in history, but it can be a heck of a nuisance to have to hunt for it "back in April last year I think maybe" and then have to copy and paste; far easier to be able to shuffle it around on the same page. As for the stuff you removed without dates or details, you'll notice that I'm not complaining about the vast majority of that; I'm simply asking that you take care not to remove things that have been sourced (or even to move them out of the place where they were sourced into an unsourced list). --Zeborah (talk) 06:09, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lists removed from main article, included here for reference[edit]

A sampling of librarians featured in works of literature include:

  • In the Discworld book series by Terry Pratchett there is a librarian who has been magically turned into an orangutan. In these stories, librarians frequently have supernatural powers related to books and library work, including access to a form of hyperspace known as L-Space.[2]
  • In Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast series, Steerpike burns and kills the castle librarian, Sourdust. Sourdust wears a red robe and is in charge of carrying out the castle's unending traditions.
  • In the comic book series Batman, Barbara Gordon is a computer-savvy librarian using the name Oracle. Before she was shot by the Joker, restricting the use of her legs, she was known as Batgirl.
  • Lucien, from Neil Gaiman's comic book series The Sandman, tends to The Dreaming's library, where all the books that are dreamt of, but never written, are contained.
  • Henry De Tamble (from the novel The Time Traveler's Wife) is a Chicago librarian with "Chrono Displacement" disorder; at random times, he suddenly disappears without warning and finds himself in the past or future, usually at a time or place of importance in his life.
  • Jack and Annie in The Magic Tree House series of children's books become "Master Librarians".
  • Irma Pince is the librarian in several of the Harry Potter novels. She is a minor character as a disciplinarian in the Hogwarts library.
  • Malachi is the scholarly librarian in Umberto Eco's medieval murder mystery The Name of the Rose who unlocks the secrets of a labyrinthine library to the novel's protagonists.
  • L. R. Wright's crime series features a librarian as partner of lead detective Karl Alberg.
  • In "It" by Stephen King the central narrator is Mike Hanlon, a librarian in the small town of Derry, Maine. He is described as "the keeper of the lighthouse"
  • In Kingsley Amis' comic novel That Uncertain Feeling, a Welsh librarian bored with his marriage casts his eye upon a new girl in town. In the film version, Only Two Can Play, the librarian was played by Peter Sellers.
  • The manga series Read or Die (a.k.a. R.O.D.) features protagonist bibliophile Yomiko Readman, who works for the Library of England in search of rare and powerful books.
  • Richard Peck's book, Here Lies the Librarian. "This book is dedicated to Living librarians everywhere And to my Dean Beth Mehalick Paskoff", who is Dean of Library and Information Sciences at Louisiana State University. On the cover is a cemetery with a gravestone that reads, "SHH!".
  • Lilian Jackson Braun's popular mystery series The Cat Who... features Polly Duncan, head of the Pickax Library and companion of the main character, James Qwilleran. This series also features Qwilleran's two bibliocats, Kao K’o Kung (Koko) and Yum Yum.
  • Charlaine Harris' "Southern Librarian" mysteries are solved by librarian Aurora "Roe" Teagarden.
  • Scott Douglas' memoir "Quiet, Please: Dispatches from a Public Librarian."
  • The eponymous character in Garth Nix's Lirael (2001) is an assistant librarian whose curiosity about the library she works in leads her into trouble and whose research skills save her. The head librarian is intimidating and the library itself a dangerous place.[3]
  • Ravna Bergsndot, the heroine in Vernor Vinge's Hugo Award-winning science fiction novel, A Fire Upon the Deep (1991), is a human librarian who is part of a rescue mission to save the universe from a spreading Blight.


Other appearances of librarians in film include:


In television:

  • On the television series All That, there are several sketches that feature a silence-obsessed librarian (known as "The Loud Librarian" to some) that scolds someone for even making a coughing sound while she herself constantly makes loud noises while performing extremely inappropriate activities for a library (weeping openly at a soap opera she's watching, playing electric guitar, using power tools, etc.). She is eventually "fired" when Lori Beth Denberg leaves the cast in 1998.
  • In the television series Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Anthony Stewart Head played the role of Rupert Giles, school librarian in earlier episodes and Buffy's watcher.
  • In a Star Trek episode All Our Yesterdays, Ian Wolfe plays librarian Mr. Atoz: "The library serves no purpose unless someone is using it." Mr. Atoz's name apparently derives from the phrase "A to Z", a reference to his occupation as a librarian. Mr. Atoz's quiet competence speaks better for the profession than his obstinate belief that the Enterprise officers want to flee to the planet's past, as all the inhabitants have done. The episode was written by UCLA librarian Jean Lisette Aroeste.
  • In the 1967 episode of The Avengers (TV series), "Murdersville", a gun is used with a silencer after the librarian points to the SILENCE sign.[7]
  • In an episode of Seinfeld, Cosmo Kramer (Michael Richards) dates a librarian from the New York Public Library, much to the chagrin of Lt. Bookman, the "library cop."
  • In one episode of Monty Python's Flying Circus wild animals are interviewed for the position of librarian.
  • In one episode of The Simpsons a librarian questions Reverend Lovejoy about a Bible he has checked out every weekend for the past 12 years, asking wouldn't it be easier just to buy one, to which the Reverend replies, "Perhaps...on a Librarian's salary..."
  • The television series Once Upon A Time centers around a librarian trapped in a witch's tower, who is forced to produce stories with a machine called 1Z2Z, and then read them.
  • In an Orwellian future, a librarian (played by Burgess Meredith) fills the title role of “The Obsolete Man” (1961) in an episode from The Twilight Zone.
  • Al Bundy (Ed O'Neill) pulls off a typical claims returned trick on an old and bitter librarian in the Married... with Children episode “He Thought He Could” (1988).
  • In a few episodes of That 70s Show, Shannon Elizabeth played Kelso's librarian girlfriend.
  • On the May 24, 2007 episode of the Colbert Report, Colbert interviewed Wikipedia co-founder Jimmy Wales. During the interview, he showed on the screen the statement "Librarians are hiding something" and asked Wales how he would stop or prevent vandalism to Wikipedia based on that statement.

Computer games:


Collectibles:

  • Space Marine Librarians are characters from the collectible miniatures game Warhammer 40,000 ; these superhuman fighters come equipped with potent psychic powers, rather than just being deskbound intellects. Wielding force staffs and psychic abilities, they are found on the battlefield battling alongside their non-psychic battle brothers delivering justice to the Emperor's enemies, while at the same time advising the Space Marine Commander.

Music

  • "Librarian" by My Morning Jacket, from their "Evil Urges" album.
  • "Sweet Librarian" by Railroad Jerk, from The Third Rail album
  • "The Librarian's Nightmare" by Phil Hammon, from The Librarian's Nightmare album
  • "Love in the Library" by Jimmy Buffett, from the Fruitcakes album
  • " Librarian"[8] by New Zealand band Haunted Love
  • "Karen" by the Go-Betweens, from the "Lee Remick/Karen" 7" single
  • Tales of a Librarian, album by Tori Amos
  • The Librarians, defunct Californian power pop band
  • Librarians, rock band from West Virginia
  • "Librarian" by Jonathan Rundman, from Public Library album
  • "I Love My Library" by Lunch Money
  • "Library" by Cursor Miner, from "Library / Our Day Will Come"[9]

Comic strips

  • Unshelved is an online daily comic strip set in Mallville Public Library reflecting changes in the real world of libraries and with an eye for popular culture.[10]
  • Questionable Content is another webcomic that recently began featuring a character who works in an academic library setting.
  • One Big Happy often features Ruthie at Story Time at her local library. The Library Lady is often despairing of Ruthie's non-sequtorial interruptions.[11]
  • Rex Libris is a comic and graphic novel series featuring a librarian who fights creatures from the missing Dewey Decimal System numbers.

--Zeborah (talk) 04:01, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ SIMILE Studies In Media & Information Literacy Education
  2. ^ What is Lspace?
  3. ^ Jennifer Burek, Pierce (2004). "What's Harry Potter doing in the library? Depictions of Young Adult information seeking behaviour in contemporary fantasy fiction". International Association of School Librarianship: Selected Papers from the 2004 Annual Conference. Brantford. pp. 73–82. {{cite conference}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help); Unknown parameter |booktitle= ignored (|book-title= suggested) (help)
  4. ^ Robbins, Louise S. (2000). The Dismissal of Miss Ruth Brown. Norman, Oklahoma: University of Oklahoma Press. ISBN 0806133147.
  5. ^ Cite error: The named reference Peresie was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  6. ^ www.palmpictures.com
  7. ^ Plot summary and images
  8. ^ YouTube - Librarian
  9. ^ uncharted | audio | cursor miner - library video (by Cheeky Beef)
  10. ^ See the latest comic strip or go to the Unshelved primer
  11. ^ See the latest strip

If this article has been nominated for deletion (for a fourth time) ...[edit]

... then the person doing the nominating should explain his/her reasons for doing so.

The portrayal of librarians in popular culture seems to be a valid topic of discussion for a place like Wikipedia ... it has been the subject of a documentary ("The Hollywood Librarian"), at least one book ("The Image of Librarians in Cinema, 1917-1999"), several websites, and a number of articles presented in peer-reviewed scholarly journals (mostly written by librarians, I admit).

I really (personally) see no reason for this article to be deleted. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.107.229.243 (talk) 17:22, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wikistalking sockpuppets...[edit]

I've been the target of a persistent wikistalker, for months, as I described in this recently closed SPI. After that SPI was closed, and that vandal's known IP addresses were blocked, they started using new IP addresses to stalk my contributions, including here. In my opinion reverting obvious vandalism does not require a detailed explanation.

  1. My initial contribution;
  2. Reverted by the sockpuppet, with the misleading edit summary "Undid revision 811256386 by Geo Swan (talk) removing irrelevant link"
  3. I reverted the sockpuppet, with the edit summary "Undid revision 811323000 by 24.114.77.185 (talk) sockpuppet harassment"
  4. My stalker reverted me with the edit summary "Undid revision 811338008 by Geo Swan (talk) please discuss rather than edit warring"
  5. I reverted them with the edit summary "Undid revision 811376705 by 24.114.77.185 (talk) -- revert sockpuppet"
  6. An apparently different anonymous IP reverted me with the edit summary "Reverting edit war, please discuss on talk"
  7. A third party revered the last anonymous IP reversion.
  8. Semi-protection was applied to this page, so it can only be edited by registered contributors.

Yes, I see large table were removed from the page to the talk page. I am not sure I agree with all those removals. But those were all fictional librarians. Ela Darling is an actual librarian. So too was historically notable libertine Casanova.

With regard to the fictional librarians, I would have argued for keeping all the fictional librarions who triggered significant discussion in other RS -- ie works other than the fictions where they were characters. Geo Swan (talk) 14:07, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Libraries and librarians in fiction[edit]

See Talk:Libraries_and_librarians_in_fiction#Merge_with_Librarians_in_popular_culture and comment there (not here) to keep discussion centralized. TIA Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:06, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  checkY Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 10:14, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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