Talk:Lewis Pragasam

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Malaysia Low‑importance

	Malaysia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Malaysia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Malaysia and Malaysia-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MalaysiaWikipedia:WikiProject MalaysiaTemplate:WikiProject MalaysiaMalaysia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Percussion Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Percussion, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of percussion on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PercussionWikipedia:WikiProject PercussionTemplate:WikiProject PercussionPercussion articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Jazz Low‑importance

	Jazz portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jazz, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of jazz on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JazzWikipedia:WikiProject JazzTemplate:WikiProject JazzJazz articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

A fact from Lewis Pragasam appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 February 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Malaysian percussionist Lewis Pragasam was drumming to "Joy to the World" at a Christmas concert when he suffered a fatal heart attack?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/February. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Lewis Pragasam.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 11:03, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that Malaysian percussionist Lewis Pragasam organized the country's first jazz rock concert at the University of Malaya in 1977? Source: https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/leisure/2023/12/19/little-drummer-boy-who-became-music-genius/
- ALT1: ... that Malaysian percussionist Lewis Pragasam was drumming to "Joy to the World" at a Christmas concert before suffering a heart failure? Source: https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/leisure/2023/12/19/little-drummer-boy-who-became-music-genius/
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Michael Kremer

Created by Ktin (talk). Self-nominated at 19:14, 1 January 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Lewis Pragasam; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

General eligibility:
New enough:
Long enough: - I know the article is technically long enough but it would be great to see if we can get it a little bit bigger before it goes to DYK.

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing: - [1] [2] - these appear to be a blog and would not be reliable. The discography is sourced to WP:ALLMUSIC and WP:DISCOGS which are user generated and not suitable.
Neutral:
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: I'd like to see the sourcing issues looked at and also to see if we can expand the article a little bit before I approve. It's a great topic and article so far just needs these issues looking at. Vladimir.copic (talk) 04:08, 16 January 2024 (UTC) Thanks for the review. My notes below.[reply]

Re: Source 1 -- This does appear as wordpress, but, this is an online mirror of the offline magazine Bandwidth Street Press December 2009 issue. I can remove the wordpress link and leave this one as an offline source. But, leaving this wordpress link adds some more to anyone wanting to read the article because Bandwidth Street Press issues are no longer available online.

Re: Source 2 -- Let me do some search for alternate sources. Stay tuned.

~~Re: Discography -- are both Allmusic and Discogs not permitted? If so, I will do some search for alternate sources. Let me know.~~

Re: the length of the article, I think what we have now is alright. All information that I could find has been added.

I will follow up regarding the sources. Cheers. Ktin (talk) 04:19, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Vladimir.copic: Source #2 has been replaced in the article. Re: Discogs and Allmusic, those have been removed. I am planning to replace them by this link from Last.fm. Per this Rfc Last.fm is unreliable for biographies and for genres. However, I am linking to direct audio track listing. So, I believe this should be fine. However, if you disagree, I can look for alternate sources. Let me know. With this, I am passing this back to you. Ktin (talk) 04:50, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I don't think we can use the sources you have included for the discography. We can be pretty loose with the sourcing for lists of works but that seems a bit too loose. I've tried to do a search myself for sources and if you use the Internet Archive and Google Books you can likely find individual sources for each album. Also, I think you need to give more information in the "Other acts" section like who these acts were. Vladimir.copic (talk) 11:18, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Vladimir.copic: -- please can you be specific? Which of the links can not be used for discography? Thanks. Ktin (talk) 01:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm referring to Deezer, Apple Music and Spotify. I would not consider these reliable. See this discussion which I think shows some kind of consensus for Spotify at least not being reliable. Vladimir.copic (talk) 04:15, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Valdimir.copic: I think you are misconstruing artist bios and album / track listings. These are two different things. I understand and agree that artist bios are contentious to be read from Spotify. I do not believe we are doing that here. Ktin (talk) 04:56, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Valdimir.copic: I gave this a lot of thought over the last few days. I have now reintroduced the link to the actual albums on Last.fm. I am convinced that the RfC that you referenced is specifically for biographies and artist information that is UGC on the site. My question here Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Sourcing_Discography did not yield anything different. The link that I have used for discography on the article is an actual link to a webplayer with the albums and songs (where you can actually click and listen to the albums). Unless you find that those albums are UGC or point to a discussion that says that the albums that are posted on Last.fm are UGC, I would want to go with this. Also, it is alright for us to disagree. If you do not feel comfortable proceeding with the review, we can ask for an alternate reviewer. Good day. Ktin (talk) 15:51, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like we've reached an impasse. I am not comfortable with the sourcing of the Discography section. Please see this discussion regarding the use of LastFM, Spotify, Apple Music and Deezer. I'm seeking another reviewer to look at this. Other than the discography the article is great, and, this disagreement aside, the nominator has done a good job. Vladimir.copic (talk) 02:44, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Vladimir.copic: I truly appreciate it. Thanks. Ktin (talk) 04:26, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Checking to see if any other reviewer is available to pick this up. Ktin (talk) 18:33, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Track listings on Apple Music and Spotify are acceptable per WP:VENDOR: "inline citations may be allowed to e-commerce pages such as that of a book on a bookseller's page or an album on its streaming-music page, in order to verify such things as titles and running times". (I treat content on their bios as 'not due on their own, but absolutely investigate further'.) Let's roll.--Laun chba ller 18:27, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]