Talk:Lancelot F.C.

This article was nominated for deletion on 9 January 2023. The result of the discussion was keep.

This page was proposed for deletion by Fram (talk · contribs) on 4 January 2023.

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Justification[edit]

Criteria for GNG:

"A topic is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list when it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject."

Although the club did not last very long:

there was significant coverage (a good number of match reports);
that is reliable (national newspaper)
in sources (one national newspaper and the biggest local newspaper - there may have been reports elsewhere but I do not have access to them);
that are independent (none of the articles seem to have been put in by the club).

That gives a presumption that the club is suitable for a standalone.

In later years, a large number of clubs enter the Scottish Cup, lose (or withdraw) once, and vanish. I would think that the presumption works against those clubs as they are in an era in which they probably were not notable even at the time.

In 1875-76, the competition has 44 clubs which play a match; the current Scottish League has 42 clubs. Although that is based on a pyramid of supporting clubs, by the end of 1875, nearly 300 clubs have been founded in Scotland, about 50 of whom have already vanished/merged, but still leaving a couple of hundred that have enough presence to be reported on. I think the 1875-76 season is the last one that justifies a wikipedia entry for a team entering the competition, after then it becomes too 'prevalent', but at this stage the game is still somewhat in its infancy and the significant reports for even a club like Lancelot suggest there is an interest in each club.

One problem is there is no guidance on what makes a football team notable. If I were drawing one up, it would include every team that made the Scottish Cup 'proper', which in practice means (before the 21st century revamp) the last 64. After all there are entries for the following:

Coylton Coila FC (page up, unchallenged, since 2014), one Scottish Cup match;
Vale of Leven Rovers FC (also since 2014), one Scottish Cup match;
Scourie FC, who only ever played 10 matches, in the second division of the North Caledonian League 2020-21, losing every one;
Argonauts FC (since 2007), who never existed other than as a concept, and whose page has been boosted by the inclusion of a second, separate, club within the article last year;
Trojans FC (1868), who never played an FA Cup tie, withdrawing from its entries;
Barholm Rovers FC (since 2010), who withdrew from their only Scottish Cup "proper" tie;
Chirk Town FC, who lasted 3 seasons at the bottom of the Welsh football pyramid;
Dundee St James FC, who have only played 1 season, but because it is in the Midland Football League in Scotland - a feeder to the Highland - they are considered notable;
any number of teams that are 10 promotions away from league football and who have never made the major rounds of a major cup.

There is therefore a risk of "recentism"; a current club in an identifiable structure is considered notable, while one which is not in living memory but which played at what is objectively a higher level - albeit briefly - is not.

It would not be good policy to wipe out, say, Colne Dynamoes, because their brief run turned out to be without any long-term effect; therefore the same approach should be taken to those who existed 100 years earlier.

Plus there are two other reasons for keeping Lancelot:

someone with better resources than me might be able to use this to springboard to some more info - I assume many of their players were not completely lost to the game, but went on to other clubs;
slightly less seriously...it would stop any confusion between Lancelot and Lancefield...they were definitely different clubs - they played each other once.

In Vitrio (talk) 20:29, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I am award, the consensus is that a team who played in the Scottish Cup should meet GNG. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 12:09, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]