Talk:LGBT themes in American mainstream comics

LGBT themes in American mainstream comics has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
November 28, 2009	Good article nominee	Listed

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Archives

Archive 1

Creation[edit]

This page was created due to undue weight concerns at LGBT themes in comics, as the Maistream American section there was by far the largest and still growing.Yob Mod 18:54, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough but the section over there is almost identical to this article, so that needs trimming right back to a summary as it looks strange at the moment to click from that to this and get the same content. (Emperor (talk) 20:31, 7 October 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Jepp- I'm waiting on the GAN, and once this article is reviewed and stable, then i'll rewrte the section in the parent article to be a summary of this. In the mean time, i started trimming out detail from the parent article.Yob Mod 06:42, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Further expansion[edit]

Characters (here's a useful list: http://www.pinkkryptonite.com/2009/06/pkpride_09_the_state_of_gays_i_1.html State of gay in mainstream comics):

Valiant Harbinger rumours?
~~Freedom Ring and death~~
~~Watchmen minor characters~~
Sandman details.
That Trans street?

Other: Boy own adventure comics subtext? Jimmy Olson corssdressing and rumours? Try to find some Comicon panel titles? Have another go at finding secondary sources for trans characters YobMod 18:54, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Additions[edit]

Have you looked at Shade, The Changing Man, Enigma and Doom Patrol (especially Danny the Street, whose name is a literal translation of Danny La Rue)? I think Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing had something too, didn't the woman Chester was interested in start seeing a woman? Oh, and see Promethea, too. Also, I think for interests of balance it needs to be mentioned that Wertham's Seduction of the Innocent is widely criticised for the naivety of his scientific method. Also, this link may be of use: Homosexuality in Comics. It's more about creators, but there might be some things in there you can use. I can't think of much else right now. I'm sure there was a lot of LGBT themes in the books Vertigo launched with though. Rachel Pollack was taken on to do Doom Patrol. Hope that helps. Hiding T 10:51, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the tips. I limited the examples to those that had reliable sources, (avoiding sources that tried to list every known example), and think that is enough for GA. But i agree, to go further than that would mean searching for sources about individual titles and characters. As there are a number of sites that do try to list every LGBT character in mainstream comics, I had to put the limit somewhere, so i've only included major characters or those with mainstream news or acedemic sources. I re-read the cbr article, to see if there are important examples missed (it's already used in the article, but more can be extracted).Yob Mod 10:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Pete Milligan's Enigma is mentioned in Alternative comics: an emerging literature, which makes the point that the work dismantles the superhero genre using sexuality. Um... "The series' crowning moment occurs when Michael consummates his relationship with the Enigma in a sexual sense". p.157 The book is about Michael coming to terms with his homosexuality, and the Enigma is a superhero from the comic books of his youth. Shade is discussed in Heroes of Film, Comics and American Culture. Danny the Street is discussed in Grant Morrison: The Early Years. It's a sentient transvestite street which "talks", see Danny the Street, most of that is verifiable to Grant Morrison: The Early Years. Have you any thoughts about addressing the Wertham quote to note that Wertham's widely criticised for the naivety of his scientific method? I can add this with cite if that's okay. Hiding T 13:56, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I checked the Seduction of the Innocent page, but didn't see anything there, and havn't had time for further research. If you already have the source, feel free to exapand it with balancing viewpoints! I'll check out those sources - thanks again! (Added Doom Patrol paragraph, will write something about Vertigo imprint, covering Shade, Enigma, Sandman, etc)YobMod 15:05, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'll add it to the Seduction of the Innocent page first and then you can see what I mean and if it is appropriate here. Hiding T 14:04, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just a quick note that there have been a few problems over Rachel Pollack and her gender, see Talk:Rachel Pollack. The consensus was that it was OK to mention in context and when sourced but someone seemed intent on jamming it in all over the article. The discussion here seems fine but it is worth keeping an eye it. There may also be sources on the Rachel Pollack article which could be useful here.

While on Vertigo then The Invisibles probably warrant a mention, especially Lord Fanny. You can search Anarchy for the Masses on Google Books. (Emperor (talk) 13:41, 9 October 2009 (UTC))[reply]

I'm fine with mentioning Pollack's situation or not. I put it is, as the character is transexual and her (Coagula's) article mentions Pollack's identification too, so it seemed of some interest. But then i didn't write anything about Judd Winnick's sexuality, even though he does a great job of covering gay issues, so i'm not fussed. I always think Pollack's situations is strange (assuming the editors at her page were correct about her preference per privacy). I've read two of her novels and one of her non-fiction books, and various of her comics, and it's difficult to imagine she wouldn't be proud or her life story, as all these works are very inclusive. AFAIK, LGBT project policy is that it only needs mentioning outside of the biography if relevant to the article: So do people think it is relevant here?YobMod 17:59, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is fine here as it is in context, relevant and can be sourced. There was a lot of sock puppet activity trying to jam unsourced mentions of her gender into other parts of the article (as part of a much larger pattern). If I've understood correctly it is all about emphasis - so she isn't a transgender writer, but a writer for whom being transgender has been part of the inspiration for certain works. (Emperor (talk) 14:10, 10 October 2009 (UTC))[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:LGBT themes in American mainstream comics/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Airplaneman ^talk 07:54, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My first GA review! I'll begin shortly. Please check my edit summaries for the reasoning behind the "yes" or "no" checks in the checklist below. Airplaneman ^talk 07:54, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a list of things to check:

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

In depth review[edit]

After these issues are addressed, I believe the article is ready for GA class! Airplaneman ^talk 01:32, 17 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Redlinks

Please fix the redlink (to the main article) under GLAAD Awards section. Airplaneman ^talk 08:15, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

External links

I'm going to continue tomorrow. For now, I'll keep this link for my own reference and give some suggestions soon: http://toolserver.org/%7Edispenser/cgi-bin/webchecklinks.py?page=LGBT_themes_in_American_mainstream_comics Airplaneman ^talk 08:26, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- They all look good except the one named "Queering Super-Manhood: The Gay Superhero in Contemporary Mainstream Comic Books". It appears to be dead. Please take a look. It's ref#29. Airplaneman ^talk 06:44, 15 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling

I've worked out some spelling mistakes. The nominator is encouraged to double check for any remaining errors. Airplaneman ^talk 18:39, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for making the time to do the review. I've been working on the (currently redlinked) see also page for the GLAAD awards. I'll put that up tomorrow and start on the rest of the improvments needed.Yob Mod 19:57, 17 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I felt the need to give back after nominating one article myself :). The process is quite fun, especially with well-suited articles like this one which need very little changes; I learn something about the topic too! Airplaneman ^talk 02:16, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On hold[edit]

I realize that I'm being extremely picky, but ref 29 just won't load on my computer; I've tried multiple times. I'd like it if it were fixed (that way I can make sure all of the sources are good ones). The redlink is fine since you're working on it. Airplaneman ^talk 06:25, 22 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the actual paper, I think. Ref 29 right now is a funky google scholar search. I'd add it, but I don't know which page is being referenced. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 20:00, 22 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's reference 29 on this article :). Thanks for finding it! Airplaneman ^talk 21:15, 22 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cool. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 21:25, 22 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, which page... I have no idea. I guess I'll ask YobMod to do it when he can. Sorry, Airplaneman ^talk 01:36, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Pass[edit]

I think this article satisfies the GA criteria, but I encourage the nominator to address the redlink and the non-working reference problems. User:Peregrine Fisher kindly gave the appropriate link, so the reference just needs to be added to the article. One redlink should not determine the quality of this article, and therefore I will pass this article! (Yay, my fist GA review is successful!). Regards, Airplaneman ^talk 22:46, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Not sure if it's much use...[edit]

...but Amazing Heroes ran a two-issue feature on LGBT characters in comics in #143-144. Being written in 1988 it's a bit of a time capsule, but the issues are available at the Internet Archive and make for some interesting historical writing on the subject. BoomboxTestarossa (talk) 11:32, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, I'll take a look into it. Historyday01 (talk) 13:20, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]