Talk:L&YR railmotors

Split

There are two types of railmotors and I think it would be easier if we had a page for each. Edgepedia (talk) 15:28, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose Until recently WP was adamant that there was only ever one type. The earlier two transverse boiler types were very much a short-lived experiment. Even the second class wasn't hugely important as an individual class.I see no purpose served by moving either of them to their own article. The history of steam railmotors within the L&YR is better served by an overall article on that as a topic, as it is now. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:04, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to withdraw this after some research. What the article doesn't make clear is that the second series grew out of the first. While I think that the railcars that Kerr Stuart sold to a number of railway companies could do with an article, I don't have the sources to expand beyond what is here. I will add what I have over the next few days. Edgepedia (talk) 15:40, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I would like to see that as an article, certainly. I don't see its overlap as being a reason to change this article though - bytes are cheap, so overlap just isn't a problem, if it gives a more readable structure to each article.

Which railway companies do you know of that used these transverse-boilered railmotors? I only know these, and the Taff Vale. I'd gained the impression that they demonstrated the light railmotor to be a useful idea, but that particular design wasn't the best way to go about it and so it didn't last long. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:44, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I have a note that Jenkinson, David (1996). History of British Railway Carriages, 1900-53. Atlantic Transport. p. 263. ISBN 978-1899816033. talks about these railcars and L&YR buying two. I could be wrong but I got the impression that several rail companies bought them. I will check and get back to you next time I visit the library. Sorry. Edgepedia (talk) 17:24, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

The transverse boiler was not a peculiarity of the Kerr, Stuart cars - all of the railmotors on the Taff Vale Railway were of this pattern, whether built in the TVR's workshops (no. 1), by Avonside Engine Co. (2-7), by Kerr, Stuart (8-13) or by Manning, Wardle (14-18). --Redrose64 (talk) 20:19, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

If you're got any details on these, do you know how they compared to transverse boiler of the Yorkshire steam wagon boiler? Andy Dingley (talk) 20:30, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't know what that boiler was like, so can't say. But there are several technical drawings of the TVR cars, their engine units and boilers (including front and side elevations, longitudinal and transverse sections) in

• Lewis, John (2004). "Chapter Twelve: The Taff Vale Railway SRMs". Great Western Steam Railmotors and their services. Didcot: Wild Swan. pp. 203–225. ISBN 1-874103-96-8. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

--Redrose64 (talk) 21:44, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm off to meta:Meetup/Reading/1 very soon, so don't have much time; but without getting into too much detail, I straight away spot a significant difference.

On the YSW boilers, having reached the two side smokeboxes, the hot gases then pass through some more boiler tubes to reach the central smokebox and so the chimney, which is directly above the boiler's transverse centre line and so above the firebox. The central smokebox doesn't seem to have a door.

On the TVR type, these gases reach the central smokebox via some ducting which is external to the boiler, although hidden behind the outer casing of the engine. The chimney is forward of the firebox. The ducting is essentially a circular pipe of {{frac|9|1|4)) inch internal diameter. The central smokebox has a normal door of small diameter on the front of the engine.

Another difference is the tubes: the YSW type has a few large tubes, the TVR type has many small tubes (two sets of 152 in the earlier types, two sets of 232 in the Manning, Wardle type). --Redrose64 (talk) 11:13, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

OK I've found some more.

• Lowe, James W. (1989) [1975]. British Steam Locomotive Builders. Guild Publishing. CN8274. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Kerr, Stuart built railmotors (or at least their engine portions) for: Gwalior Light Railway (two); Buenos Ayres Great Southern Railway (BAGSR) (three); Taff Vale Railway (six); Great Western Railway (14, of two different types); Italian State Railways (two); Mauritius Railways (two) (Lowe 1989, p. 357).

It's certain that not all shared the TVR-type boiler, since the three for the BAGSR and the first two GWR examples (GWR nos. 15-16, Diagram E) had a normal single-barrel boiler, although mounted sideways - the firebox was on the left, the smokebox on the right (Lewis 2004, p. 187). The other twelve GWR railcars (GWR nos. 61-72, Diagram O) had a vertical boiler which was typical of the majority of GWR railcars (Lewis 2004, pp. 31, 157–8). --Redrose64 (talk) 13:44, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

There's a photo of GWR No. 15 on Flickr here, after it had been sold to the Nidd Valley. Edgepedia (talk) 14:18, 29 September 2012 (UTC) And a photo of one of the BAGSR railcars on this page (scroll down to 1905). Edgepedia (talk) 14:21, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

The photo of GWR No. 15 on Flickr also appears (in cropped form) in Lewis (2004, pp. 192). This photo shows that the engine casing was (almost) plain on the left side - there was a hinged cover to give access to the firebox end of the boiler. The RHS of the engine casing (not visible) had a smokebox door, basically similar to both sides of the engine casings on the TVR cars. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:31, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Altcar Bob

I've changed 'Upholland' as the destination of this service. Barton station was the terminus after 1926; previously this was Altcar & Hillhouse. Barton was renamed 'Downholland', but Upholland railway station is well on the other side of Ormskirk on the Liverpool (now Kirkby) to Wigan Wallgate line - and is still open. Peridon (talk) 23:05, 28 March 2015 (UTC)