Talk:Kurmali language

how is it possible?

As far as I know, I am the first one, wo compared the Kurmali letters with Turkish Runes!

check this out:

https://uzunbacakadem.blogspot.com/2020/05/indiankurmali-vs-turkishrunes.html

These very "European" Kurmali signs are very similar to Turkish Runes (not only in shape but also in sound).

How?

--UzunbacakAdem (talk) 11:45, 20 December 2020 (UTC) 09:00, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Unicode Proposal to Encode Chisoi

A proposal to encode Chisoi has been posted: https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2021/21183-chisoi.pdf --Apisite (talk) 22:44, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

You are Wrong

No similarity between Kudmali and Turkish. The sound quite be common but meaning and specifications like Kudmali could not present in Turkish language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kumar Rishi Ranjan (talk • contribs)

Kurmali/ Kudmali dialect

As census report there are 3,00,000 + kurmali language speaker from different parts of India. So the language must have some dialects. The census also excluded the kurmali speaker from the Jharkhand state, that might be because of the language spoken is much similar to Nagpuri or other regional language. To note that the census counted only the Kurmali Thar (i.e., Thar means dialect), not all speaker. As far my knowledge there are four variant of the Kurmali language i.e., Jharkhandi Kurmali (earlier version of language, spoken in Jharkhand) , Odisha Kudmali ( has Bengali and Odia in it, spoken in northern part of Odisha and Medinipur), Purulia Kudmali ( has Bengali in it, spoken western parts of West Bengal) and Assam Kurmali ( has Bengali and Assamese in it, spoken mainly in Tea State of Assam). Also note that the Kurmali speaker of Assam and Jharkhand pronunciation Kurmali as Kurmali whereas the Kurmali speaker of Purulia and Odisha pronounce Kurmali as Kudmali.

So, I request Linguistic Wikipedians to take consideration for improvement. MaxA-Matrix (talk) 13:21, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Source:

• https://www.grin.com/document/278586
• https://www.academia.edu/38289830/Role_of_Socio_economic_Variables_in_Language_Shift_A_Case_Study_from_West_Bengal

Respected @Fylindfotberserk:,
Topic: Requested citation in Kurmali language#Geographical distribution
The statistical data available in Census of India website but all the data are in multiple excel file (District wise). If we cite all the source link this will be messy. For the statement about the Kurmali Thar and Panch Pargania are dialect of the Kurmali language is that this article's summary says that "As a trade dialect, it is known as Panchpargania".
Thank you, waiting for your response MaxA-Matrix (talk) 14:37, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

@MaxA-Matrix: While the totals 3,11,175 for Kurmali Thar and 2,44,290 for Panch Pargania can be supported by by this existing source (I've checked the archive and sourced it for the sentence), the excelsheets from census sources are not adding up. For example the Census source for West Bengal states 306756 Kurmali Thar + 132 Panch Pargania speakers, while for Jharkhand, Panch Pargania 193256 + 1170 Kurmali Thar speakers. In that case, the percentages in the pie chart are off, since they are clearly higher in WB than in Jharkhand, so the percentages need to be checked. Also I believe, we should use the word mostly in the text there are 3,11,175 Kurmali Thar speaker in India mostly from West Bengal, Odisha, Assam and Maharashtra and 2,44,290 Panch Pargania speaker from Jharkhand near Jharkhand since, Kurmali Thar is also spoken there. I haven't checked them for other states (I'll). As for the above scholarly sources, I believe you can add them in specific positions with the existing ones. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:12, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk:, Thank you for your valuable suggestion. But my knowledge about linguistic is poor. So my brain (🙂) can't sum up the linguistic information in manner to make good standard article. So i request you kindly take a look at the Reference and the source in Further reading section to make improvement. MaxA-Matrix (talk) 15:08, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

@MaxA-Matrix: OK, I will that in time. As of now, my primary concern is the percentages in the pie-chart and whether they match with the census excel sheets. I'll check it next week probably. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:41, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Someone from from our India give fake information about Kurmali

Some people's who edit Wikipedia from outside India manipulate Kurmali writing with false information. They also didn't provide proper information about it. Wikipedia administrator please take necessary action upon them. They did not provide authentic information Mahato King (talk) 14:47, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Can you specify your problems, i.e., what exactly is the false information according to you? I have also responded to your message on my talk page Kpddg ^(talk) 15:44, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

@Mahato King: This sentence And bilingually spoken by Bhumij, Ho, Kharia, Lohara/Lohar, Mahli, Munda, Oraon, Santal, Savar and Bathudi communities which you removed here is cited from a Indian Govt source [1] (See page 410). And the hatnote "and Karmali language, a dialect of Santali language" you removed abides by WP:HATNOTE guidelines, unrelated things with a similar spelling can be added in a hatnote. You are being disruptive only. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:15, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

This is not Government source , it is a individual man writting. Mahato King (talk) 16:17, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Their is no karmali language.karmali tribe speak nagpuri Mahato King (talk) 16:18, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

From Santali language:

Dialects of Santali include Kamari-Santali, Karmali (Khole), Lohari-Santali, Mahali, Manjhi, Paharia.

Peaceray (talk) 17:06, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

References

Fylindfotberserk you provided fake information o Mahato King (talk) 16:19, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

lsi.gov.in is a government website from where scholarly source comes from. Scholarly are used as sources in Wikipedia if you don't know, including this boock]. See WP:SCHOLAR. Givt. sources are not the ultimate in Wikipedia, since they are WP:PRIMARY. Typically WP:SECONDARY scholarly sources are used in Wikipedia. And I told you to stop accusing others. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:29, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Change from Kurmali to Kudmali.

Because Kudmali Language is the Mother tongue of Kudmi Mahato Community, not Kurmi Caste(Specially Like, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh). Kudmi and Kurmi Both are not Same Community. And Point to be noted here, Sidho Kanho Birsa University(Purulia, West Bengal) and Jhargram University (Jhargram, West Bengal) both are used as Kudmali Language, not Kurmali. Thank You. চিথারাই মাহাতো (talk) 05:26, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

SKBU: https://skbu.ac.in/index/pageid/9al94aabgg7aledb5a4aaa1fke7a5f0ale7f

Jhargram University: https://srcmujhargram.ac.in/ চিথারাই মাহাতো (talk) 05:31, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@চিথারাই মাহাতো

👍RITWIK MAHATA (talk) 12:35, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Kurmali or Kudmali, naming dispute discussion

Recently, we witnessed a dispute over the name of the article, whether it should be named, Kurmali or Kudmali. Currently, the article is named Kurmali. However, I strongly believe that a similar dispute will occur again in the future. Therefore, this is a discussion space where you can share your arguments before taking any action regarding this matter.

MaxA-Matrix💬 talk 10:14, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

@চিথারাই মাহাতো @RITWIK MAHATA

If you have any suggestion or arguments regarding this, please discuss here; MaxA-Matrix💬 talk 10:24, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Kudmali is used in two universities in West Bengal.(New Open Kudmali PG and Diploma Course). I have shared the official link of both the universities. Kudmali is also used in Odisha. For more details (Linguistic Survey of India by Mr. Grierson.)

And Kudmali Language is the Mother tongue of Kudmi Mahato Community, not Kurmi Caste(Specially Like, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh). Kudmi and Kurmi Both are not Same Community. (For more details, People of India by K. S. Singh. Jharkhand Volume). চিথারাই মাহাতো (talk) 13:05, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Kudmali Ethnologue Title as Kudmali, not Kurmali. Thank You.

https://www.ethnologue.com/language/kyw/ চিথারাই মাহাতো (talk) 13:18, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

The synonym of Kudmali are 'Kuṛmāli, Kurmali, Kudmali, Kudmali Thar, Kurmali Thar, কুড়মালি, কুড়মালী, কুর্মালী, কুরমালি, कुड़मालि, कुड़माली, कुरमालि, कुर्मालि, କୁଡ଼ମାଲି'। But the use of Kudmali is much more now. Thank You. চিথারাই মাহাতো (talk) 13:27, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

I suggest you to see Wikipedia:Naming dispute guideline for better understanding wiki title. Also see other language wiki article e.g., Nagpuri language which is also known as Sadri ( Ethnologue). MaxA-Matrix💬 talk 13:51, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes. But the use of Kudmali is much more now. Thank You. চিথারাই মাহাতো (talk) 14:35, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

'I strongly believe that a similar dispute will occur again in the future.' I agree with You. Thank You. চিথারাই মাহাতো (talk) 15:00, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

So, for now ,the article can be named Kudmali/Kurmali language. RITWIK MAHATA (talk) 21:48, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

@RITWIK MAHATA

1. Kudmali is an alternative spelling of Kurmali, and vice versa, but they are not alternative names. The recent trend of using the spelling "Kudmali" is influenced by politics, while "Kurmali" is more widely used in various sources. Both spellings, Kudmali and Kurmali, are considered correct, similar to the case of "India" and "Bharat". That's why both spellings are mentioned in the lead section.
2. Regarding the title of this article as Kurmali/Kudmali language, it's important to note that Wikipedia article titles follow specific guidelines, just as you wouldn't see "India/Bharat" as a title. Please refer to WP:TITLE for more information.
3. I have noticed that you have been continuously making minor disruptive edits on articles related to the Kurmali language and Kudmi Mahato. I urge you to visit the WP:10SIMPLERULES to familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's contribution guidelines.
   MaxA-Matrix💬 talk 02:25, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

The linguistic survey that we have carried out on in these areas convinces us that this is a thoroughly misleading calculation. It is evident that Bengali-speaking population of the area as the area as 8 lacs (Census Reports of 1951) and odd includes in itself about 750,000 of the speakers of Kuŕmāli, Khoțțā, Muchiāli, Magahi and other Bihari dialects, who have been wrongly shown as the speakers of Bengali.[Page: Chapter: 1, Page: 1].

@User:চিথারাই মাহাতো The paragraph you provided appears to lack context, making it unclear what you are trying to convey. Additionally, there are references to "we" and "us" that are not used in articles. Therefore, a clarification tag has been added for clarity. MaxA-Matrix💬 talk 14:47, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

@MaxA-Matrix "The speakers of Kurmali are spread over a vast region of East India, especially in fringe areas of West Bengal, Jharkhand and Odisha. These states are mostly dominated by Bengali, Nagpuri and Odia speakers. Local dialectal change and language shift can be noticed in these areas. The Kurmi of West Bengal identify themselves as speakers of Kurmali but due to age-long settlement in the Bengali region their language is shifting towards the Manbhumi dialect of Bengali, as similarly occurred in northern Odisha with Bengali and Odia admixture. In the 1903 Linguistic survey of India, the shift was explained this way:

There are ... emigrants from ... highlands into the Bengali-speaking area. These have retained their own language, though ... borrowing words and grammatical forms from those amongst whom they live. The result is a kind of mixed dialect essentially Bihārī in its nature, but with a curious Bengali colouring. [...] In each case this dialect is the language of a strange people in a strange land. ... In Manbhum this [Kuṛmalī] language is principally spoken by people of the Kuṛmī caste, who are numerous in the districts of Chota Nagpur, and in the Orissa Tributary state of Mayurbhanja. ... [They] do not all speak corrupted Bihārī. Many of them speak Bengali and Oriya. ... In the Orissa Tributary States, the Kuṛmī nearly all talk Bengali, although living in an Oriya speaking country. — 

The linguistic survey that we have carried out on in these areas convinces us that this is a thoroughly misleading calculation. It is evident that Bengali-speaking population of the area as the area as 8 lacs (Census Reports of 1951) and odd includes in itself about 750,000 of the speakers of Kuŕmāli, Khoțțā, Muchiāli, Magahi and other Bihari dialects, who have been wrongly shown as the speakers of Bengali.[Page: Chapter: 1, Page: 1]."

The Kurmis that Grierson mentions as Bengali speaking are actually Kurmali speaking.

Thank You. চিথারাই মাহাতো (talk) 06:00, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

I just simply don't understand what is the necessity of this paragraph ? Please elaborate ?

MaxA-Matrix💬 talk 06:16, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

References

Kurmali is a Indo-Aryan Language

Kudmali is a indo aryan language which is proved by ethnologue iso and glottolog. I have also added ethnologue reference.But Chitharai Mahato, a spammer is tried to prove it as a dravidian language by adding some unauthentic reference and some author individual comments. Please take action against chitharai as soon as possible.