Talk:Kosovo Longcrower

Origins

The breed originated in the region Kosovo and surrounding areas. Its ancestors were imported by Ottoman Turks from eastern parts of the Ottoman Empire.

Please,I have question here: Its ancestors were imported by Ottoman Turks from eastern parts of the Ottoman Empire.

my comment regarding that constations:

It is known that invaders do not bring any natural or other resources to a foreign country for further cultivation. Instead, they use all the natural or other resources of the occupied country for their own interests.

The Kosovo LongCrower is an autochthonous breed of Kosovo. The thesis stating that this breed was brought from Turkey is not true, because there is no evidence to support it. Given that many Balkan countries were invaded by the Ottoman Empire, then the assumption that this breed was brought from Turkey (there is no such breed of chicken in Turkey i.e. it never existed there) may raise the following question: Why this breed was not taken to other countries that have been under the Ottoman occupation except to Kosovo? While this breed does not exist in Turkey at all, how it has managed to survive only in Kosovo so far? It is known that the Berat’s Crower, which was taken to Turkey by emigrants from Albania, still exists there. There are no other documents and arguments related to it. The breed that is known in Turkey and which is under the protection of state is the breed Denizli. There is monument of it in the city of Denizli.

So, these allegations support the fact that the Kosovo LongCrower is an autochthonous breed of Kosovo, and that there is no similar breed with such specifications in the world.

Origin

1. Chickens in general has been domestificated in South-East Asia 10 000 years ago. No ancestors of chickens are in Europe, nor Kosovo. Due to this reason, logicaly, those domestificated ancestors MUST BE imported by someone both to Europe as well as to Kosovo from South-East Asia.

2. Yes, Kosova Long Crowing Roster is autochthonous breed of Kosovo and it was selected (created) here. Bud local people in Kosovo must create it from something (as there is no wild chickens. As stated above, those ancestors were imported by somebody from the East... However, it does not mean that Kosova Long Crowing Roster comes from Turkey. His ancestors was absolutely different breed which was later in Kosovo selected (breeded) into new breed - present days known as "Kosova Long Crowing Roster".

3. Invaders always bring food with them (often also domestic animals). They do not intent to share it with local people, they bring it only for their own purpose (not to be hungry and to be strong enough to battle). When Turks were overmatched, logicaly those chickens remain here. If the breed was good, of course, local people continue to keep it. However, under different conditions and the selection (evolution) process, those old breed was developed into new breed.

So I think it is clear now.

Dear Friend,I have additonal answer regarding you canstations:

Discussion about the origin of the Kosovo LongCrower

Taking into account the period of time you are referring to, I think that your findings are right. But, I was talking about and I referred to the period of time before the Ottoman Empire. The most famous populations in the ancient history of the Balkans were the Greeks, Illyrians and Thracians. The Illyrians, as descendants of the Pelasgians, are one of the most ancient inhabitants of the Balkans. The Illyrians developed their culture, language and anthropologic features in their native land, which is the western part of the Balkan Peninsula, according to the ancient writers, who mentioned them in their works. The problem of the Illyrian origin and language, as well as their cultural features, is one of the main goals of the illyrology. Various points of view that occurred regarding this issue are divided into two main theories: The theory which considers the Illyrians as indigenous inhabitants of the Balkans and the theory which considers the Illyrians as denizen in the Balkans. There are discrepancies among the theories that consider the Illyrians as denizen into the Balkan Peninsula, as regards the country they came from, as well as the time of their arrival. Archeological discoveries after World War II prove the autochthonism of the Illyrians. Numerous theories also explain the Illyrian culture, comparing it with different European and world cultures. The origin of the Illyrians is also reflected in the description of their cults, which is closely related to their movements. The Illyrians developed their social and artistic culture in their ethnic territories. The Illyrian art in the early Iron Age is represented in various figures of animals and is characterized by its decorative style, combined with geometric motifs. The prehistoric Illyrian art is mainly featured by mud or bronze animal or birds’ images, which represented their religious cults. The cult was like a religious service containing a mystical ceremony in honor of a deity. Many cults are expressed by different motives that decorated special objects, which graphically symbolized birds, snakes, the sun etc. The Illyrian cult of the sun was very important. This Illyrian cult was also expressed through various pendants in birds’ shapes. One of very important Illyrian cults was undoubtedly the cult of birds, which appears in many symbolic figures. This indicates that birds have played an important role in Illyrian symbolism. The birds that are most frequently found in the Illyrian ruins so far are the eagle and the dove. The cult of these birds is documented by archaeological resources and writings. However, neither material resources nor the writings are sufficient enough to enable a clear picture of these cults in all Illyrian areas. The symbol of birds is undoubtedly one of the first symbols that man has used to describe religious cults. The large number of them tells us that these symbols existed in parallel with other cults and symbols. This is yet another proof that birds have lived among the people since ancient times. According to further presentations of birds, it is clear that this animal had a significant role in the Illyrian religion. Although there are many images of birds, they are not sufficient for recognizing the cult of bird. This fact, however, must not make us conclude that the Illyrians did not know the cult of birds, respectively the eagle and the dove, as well as the rooster and the hen. The written resources of recent periods are very important, because they describe some important features of the Illyrian cult, which were impossible to be obtained only from archaeological material.

According to church resources the most important birds were the eagle and the dove called the Illyrian angel. The eagle remained a national symbol, whereas the Illyrian Angel (Columba Ilyrica) remained a living legend. Colors that dominated in the ancient Illyrian cults were red and black. The Illyrian dove (columba illyrica) and the Illyrian insect (stictoleptura cordigera illyrica), as well as the Albanian national flag are in the same colors. Thus, it is not a coincidence that the Kosovo longcrower is in these two colors, which are not found anywhere else.

Point 3 of your finding sounds logical, but is not justified as far as the Kosovo longcrower is concerned. I don’t agree with you, because I think that if this breed was brought by Ottomans or other invaders, it would survive in other countries as well (not only in Kosovo) ..

On this aspect, I strongly object to this theory, because it is not founded and I hope that you will also agree with the aforementioned arguments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Longcrower (talk • contribs) 23:09, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is based on the facts. Illyrians may keep many animals, but it do not needs to mean that the same animals (or directs offsprings) still live on the territory originaly inhabited by Illyrians. Just another example: in Serbia there are some autohtonous chicken breeds which are not originaly from native Serbian stock, but they were based on the animals imported from other parts of Europe around 1900 and in Serbia hybridised with local stock. Altough, it is currently considered as native Serbian breeds, the source of the breed was imported from abroad. The same case is also many other European chicken breed e.g. in Slovakia, Czechia, Sweden etc.

Point 3 of your finding sounds logical, but is not justified as far as the Kosovo longcrower is concerned. I don’t agree with you, because I think that if this breed was brought by Ottomans or other invaders, it would survive in other countries as well (not only in Kosovo).

I did not tell that Kosova Long Crowing Rooster was imported by somebody. I have told, that ancestors (absolutely different kind of breed) was imported, and later upon those breed was selected (developed) a new breed called Kosova Long Crowing Rooster.

Due to this reason, it CAN NOT survived in other countries as it has been developed in Kosovo. In other countries might be developed other kinds of breeds based on the same source imported by Ottoman Turks, however, this breed (if exists) must looks differently, because there are another environmental conditions and another breeders which has developed the breed under another direction... However, during ages, these breeds could extinct... Many old European breed exctinct during ages due to lack of interest by breeders. Some of them survived, but are extremely endangered or are not the pure stock but hybrids with other imported breed (e.g. Icelandic chickens). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kprwiki (talk • contribs) 12:22, 22 February 2011 (UTC)