Talk:Jon Christos

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Aix-en-Provence Festival[edit]

What evidence is there for Christos singing "leading operatic roles at home and abroad in operas such as Puccini's La Boheme, Mozart's The Magic Flute, Janacek's Jenufa, Britten's Albert Herring, Puccini's Tosca, The Barber of Seville at the . . . Aix-en-Provence music festival" ? Searching the site results in 'no result'. --Kleinzach (talk) 03:30, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The following is taken from the jonchristos.com website almost-instinct 12:18, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jon Christos started playing the violin at the age of 4, he quickly graduated to the piano and eventually to the renowned Chetham's School of Music in Manchester and then onto The Royal Northern College of Music as a Major Scholarship recipient. He has taken leading operatic roles at home and abroad in operas such as Puccini's La Boheme (Rodolfo), Mozart's The Magic Flute (Tamino), Janacek's Jenufa (Steva) and, at the prestigious Aix-en-Provence music festival in the south of France, Rossini's The Barber of Seville (Count Almaviva). Very much in demand on the concert platform Jon has performed every major work from Handel's Messiah to Verdi's Requiem at venues such as The Royal Albert Hall, Symphony Hall, The Royal Festival Hall, The Phillharmonic Hall and The Bridgewater Hall.
The release of Jon's debut album "Northern Light" in 2006 was accompanied by the showing of a Granada TV documentary in the 'Chasing The Dream' series, giving a superb insight not only into Jon Christos the man, but also into the recording process. Included in the documentary was footage of Jon's trip to the USA on September 6th, 2005, to perform with the world renowned Erich Kunzel and his Cincinnati Pops Orchestra at a special '9/11' commemorative concert. Jon's artistry wowed Kunzel and his orchestra, while his impromptu performance of the US national anthem at the concert made him a legion of fans in America.
Since Northern Light, Jon has performed on nationwide TV a number of times; on December 24th, 2005, on an ITV Christmas Eve concert from Norwich Cathedral, in January 2006, on the ITV chat show 'Lunchtime with Des & Mel' and on a special ITV 'Act of Worship for Peace,' again from Norwich Cathedral. In February 2006, Jon performed on three consecutive episodes of BBC 1's Songs of Praise show and again performed for ITV in an Easter Service on April 16th. Jon again appeared on BBC Songs of Praise on June 18th, August 27th and October 1st 2006. Jon has been a judge on the BBC Radio 2's Young Chorister of the Year competition and has also performed three times on BBC Radio 2's illustrious Friday Night is Music Night show.
In July 2006 Jon performed a live concert at Hyde Park in Manchester, and three weeks later performed the "Sport Symphony" with Carl Davis in Pamplona, Spain. He returned to the "Sports Symphony" when he performed it live with Carl Davis and the Royal Scottish National Orchestra on October 19th and 20th 2006 in Glasgow and Edinburgh and again with the Halle Orchestra on May 19th 2007 at the Bridgewater Hall in Manchester. Jon next performed with Carl on June 28th with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic and on July 6th & 7th at Leeds Castle in Kent. On July 14th Jon headlined the Northern Proms in Durham.
Jon has performed at a number of high profile sporting events including several half-time concerts at The City of Manchester Stadium, the Powergen Rugby Cup Final at Twickenham, the Heineken Cup Final at the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff and most recently was the first artist to perform at the New Wembley Stadium for an England Under 16 International and also performed at Wembley for the Championship play-off final. Jon is also a regular performer at The Willows, home of his local Rugby League team, the Salford City Reds.

With all due respect I don't think that answers my question. It doesn't tell us what he was doing at the (important) Aix-en-Provence music festival. --Kleinzach 14:53, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I should have put in a new heading, it wasn't supposed to be an attempted reply: I merely put it in to contrast with the main page. But for an answer, see below: "Count Almaviva in the college's staging of Rossini's Barber of Seville at the Aix-en-Provence Festival". I think that clears it up? almost-instinct 15:21, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I think it does. Student production not a festival production, so presumably non notable. --Kleinzach 15:25, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

further refs[edit]

see also:

John Christodoulou, John Marsden, and Alexander Grove met at The Royal Northern College of Music (RNCM), Manchester. John Christodoulou was born in Salford and started his musical education as a Cathedral Chorister and pupil of Manchester’s Chetham’s School of Music at the age of 8.[1]

Who Are Tenori?
Tenori began in 2003 with John Christodoulou (now John Christos), Alexander Grove and John Marsden who met at the Royal Northern College of Music (RNCM) Manchester[2]

JOHN CHRISTODOULOU was educated at Chetham's School of Music. In 1994 he entered the RNCM and won the James Martin Oncken Song Prize in his second year. He has appeared in many college opera productions and took the part of Count Almaviva in the College's production of Rossini's Barber of Seville at the Aix en Provence Festival. In 1996 he made his Manchester Bridgewater Hall debut in Berlioz's L'Enfance du Christ under Kent Nagano and he was also a soloist in under Nagano in the world premiere of the original version of Mahler's Das klagende Lied. He appears regularly on the oratorio and concert platforms and broadcasts with the BBC Daily Service Singers.[3]

She will be joined on stage by another graduate of the Royal Northern College of Music, the Manchester-born tenor John Christodoulou. In 1998 he performed the role of Mr Upfold in the RNCM's production of Britten's Albert Herring and that of Count Almaviva in the college's staging of Rossini's Barber of Seville at the Aix-en-Provence Festival. John Christodoulou also took the role of Steva in the RNCM's production of Janacek's Jenufa and the part of Ernesto in Donizetti's Don Pasquale for Clonter Opera. This summer he has performed Sesto in Handel's Giulio Cesare for the Yorke Trust in Norfolk.[4]

Tamino: John Christodoulou

Pamina: Charlotte Ellett Sarastro: Mark Ashmore Queen of the Night: Rachel Luxon Papageno: Toby Stafford-Allen Monostatos: Mark Kandall Speaker: Darren Jeffrey Papagena: Lucy Bates Three Ladies: Anthea Kempston, Imogen Garner and a substitute 3rd Lady whose name I've lost

Director: Stefan Janski Designer: Christopher Woods Lighting: Philip L Edwards

Royal Northern College Chorus and Orchestra Conductor: Timothy Reynish

...Modified rapture for Christodoulou, whose voice seemed alternately too big (middle register) and too small (upper register) for Tamino, though he cut a dignified figure and sounded fine in ensembles[5]

almost-instinct 10:56, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. These are all student performances, aren't they? --Kleinzach 14:59, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I guess so. Excepting "In 1996 he made his Manchester Bridgewater Hall debut in Berlioz's L'Enfance du Christ under Kent Nagano and he was also a soloist in under Nagano in the world premiere of the original version of Mahler's Das klagende Lied" I would have thought almost-instinct 15:24, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, another exception: "Each year Clonter Opera auditions young singers at music colleges around the UK, and also holds auditions for singers who have recently embarked on professional careers. Most singers who take part in the opera studios are under 30. They are treated as professionals, rather than as students."[6] almost-instinct 15:28, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cut and paste content[edit]

One of the references given [7] links to content published by Christos' record company:

...Since leaving college Jon Christos has sung in over 60 performances of Handel's Messiah and for over 50 choral societies throughout the UK. He has taken leading operatic roles at home and abroad in operas such as Puccini's La Boheme(Rodolfo), Mozart's The Magic Flute (Tamino), Janacek's Jenufa (Steva), Britten's Albert Herring(Mr Upfold) Puccini's Tosca (Cavoradosi) and, at the prestigious Aix-en-Provence music festival in the south of France, Rossini's The Barber of Seville (Count Almaviva)...After just a few years touring the world in opera productions, playing to highly informed but comparatively small audiences, Jon was beginning to yearn for something bigger and better, a change in direction that would require all of his musical skills and bring him to the attention of a far larger and broader audience. And so occurred one of the strangest coincidences in classical music. Just around the corner from Jon's family home in Salford lives Perry Hughes, a successful manager & executive producer of some of the country's leading classical stars. Neither man knew of the other's existence until, on the advice of his brother Jon Knocked on Perry's door and told him, in no uncertain terms, that he, Perry, must listen to him sing. It wasn't the first time Perry had been disturbed by 'wannabees' seeking their big break but something about the young man's urgent tone persuaded him to invite Jon to his sound studio for an audition ... The release of Northern Light on October 3rd 2005 was accompanied by the showing of a Granada TV documentary in the Chasing The Dream series, giving a superb insight not only into Jon Christos the man, but also into the recording process. Included in the documentary was footage of Jon's trip to the USA on September 6th 2005 to perform with the world renowned Erich Kunzel and his Cincinnati Pops orchestra at a special '9/11' commemorative concert. Jon's artistry wowed Kunzel and his orchestra, while his impromptu performance of the US national anthem at the concert made him a legion of fans in America. Since Northern Light was released Jon has been a judge on the BBC Radio 2 Young Chorister of the Year competition and has received an invitation to be the vocal coach for England Ashes hero Andrew 'Freddy' Flintoff. That start of 2006 promises to be no less hectic with a string of TV and radio performances already lined up including an unprecedented three week run on BBC 1 Songs of Praise in February ...

Much of this is word for word what appears on the main page almost-instinct 23:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is relevant, because:
1. Wikipedia:Neutral point of view says:
  • "The neutral point of view is a means of dealing with conflicting verifiable perspectives on a topic as evidenced by reliable sources"
  • "NPOV requires views to be represented without bias...When editorial bias toward one particular point of view can be detected, the article needs to be fixed"
2. Wikipedia:Conflict of interest says:
  • "Closeness to a subject does not mean you're incapable of being neutral, but it may incline you towards some bias. Be guided by the advice of other editors. If editors on a talk page suggest in good faith that you may have a conflict of interest, try to identify and minimize your biases, and consider withdrawing from editing the article"
3. Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners says:
  • "You must use reliable sources, such as published books, mainstream press, and authorised web sites. Blogs, MySpace, YouTube, fan sites and extreme minority texts are not usually acceptable"
4. Wikipedia:Verifiability says
  • "Questionable sources are those with a poor reputation for fact-checking. Such sources include websites and publications that express views that are widely acknowledged as extremist, are promotional in nature ... Self-published sources should never be used as third-party sources about living persons"
This means that everything solely referenced to a website written by the subject's promotional agents will have to be removed, especially in view of this almost-instinct 13:37, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This source is a problem. The guideline Wikipedia:Reliable sources says "Reliable sources are credible published materials with a reliable publication process; their authors are generally regarded as trustworthy or authoritative in relation to the subject at hand". This interview was conducted by the head of the allaboutmanchester website, and just repeats whatever the subject says, so as a reliable source is not better than the record company blurb. Is there a better source? almost-instinct 09:56, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pasted in from my talk page:

SOURCE COMMENT
I feel to suggest the website you refer to and their reporter as not reliable sources or credible is going to far.
The website reports on various subjects and happenings in the Manchester area, and is in my opinion extremely credible. An independent reporter interviews and writes down what is said to them, that's their job. Editors have to be extremely careful about what they put out in the public domain and obviously the facts given in the statement you dispute to were taken as correct. On those grounds I feel the citation stands. Alfshire 20:31, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

See the contradiction in the next paragraphs for proof that this source is "not reliable" almost-instinct 22:27, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Conflicting sources[edit]

This source conflicts with a source we have about roles sung at RNCM. This is the cast list from a review of Jenufa:

Jenufa: Gabriella Lambert-Olsson
Kostelnicka: Claire Weston
Laca: Luis Rogruguez-Chapa
Steva: Roberto Garcia-Lopez
Grandmother: Jessica Greaves
Jano: Sarah Tynan
Foreman (Starek): Simon Bailey
Barena: Lucy Bates
Karolka: Victoria Joyce
Mayor: Julian Close
Mayor's Wife: Mai-Lung Pun
Maid: Ruth Trawford
Aunt: Shelley Coulter-Smith

This one seems a more objective report almost-instinct 16:51, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Avoiding hype[edit]

The source allaboutmanchester includes this quote: "He managed to finish his training in Manchester and then went on to take leading roles at home and abroad in operas such as Puccini's La Boheme, Mozart's The Magic Flute, and Janacek's Jenufa among many others". The source quoted immediately before (and others) show that this statement is incorrect: firstly these roles were taken at the RNCM, not "after finishing his training", and secondly the quote in the section above contradicts the claim that he sang in Jenufa. This shows that the allaboutmanachester interviewer happily repeated the supposed facts included in Christos' promotional material without checking facts independently. How can we consider it to be a reliable source?! almost-instinct 22:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Copied in from my talk page:

I feel you are now questioning the integrity of the artist, the reporter and the website concerned, this is totally unacceptable. Obviously the RNCM won't make every cast list of every production ever made on the internet, so you have no reason to assume facts shown are incorrect. Do you really expect an artists every single performance throughout their life to be given a citation, surely not? I am therefore leaving the source as it is, anyone is perfectly entitled to edit the page, let's see if they do. Alfshire 11:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Please do not blank this talk page. Alfshire, I really think you are having conflict of interest problems here. I understand the artist is a friend of yours, but when an objective source (ie the above cast list in a review of the RCNM Jenufa) contradicts the claims of the artist or his promotional representatives it is our duty to question. Sloppy journalism is scarcely unheard of in this world, esp. in a puff piece. In answer to your question: no, not every performance needs citing, but all of those notable enough to be mentioned in an encylopedia's article does need citing. (We should not be aiming to record every performance.) Finally, please post your replies here, where everyone can see them, rather than on my talk page. Thank you, almost-instinct 21:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see where you are coming from AI, but the artist and his management will have read what has been said about him and have not challenged the report, IMO if unhappy they would not have allowed the website to keep it on the internet for all to see. This is what I meant about questioning their integrity. However,I do appreciate you cleaning up the article and hope we can remain in friendly touch. I was thinking of taking out some of the less notable appearances from the article and perhaps some actual dates (using months and years only). Maybe some noteworthy appearances speak for themselves (they can easily be traced on Google for example) and don't need citations, is that usually the case in your experience ? If you have any other useful tips on formatting the article please let me know. Regards, Alfshire 18:05, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

IMO: I would say that when adding details of concerts, think: how does this add to a reader's understanding of the subject? To make up an example: if there was a sentence saying "in July 2007 he performed at four sporting occasions, including singing during half-time at the xxxx match", subsequently adding details about a fifth performance at a sporting occasion in August 2007 wouldn't achieve much. Much better just to amend it to "in Summer 2007 &c." We aren't aiming to archive the entirety of the career, but rather present milestone facts that give a good outline of the acheivements and the narrative of the career. In terms of the getting the citations correct for the opera performances, one thing notable about Christos is that, unlike most "crossover" tenors, he has actually sung on the opera stage. This differentiates him from those "opera" crossover singers who have never set foot on an operatic stage. So we need to be precise. If we present facts clearly, in measured tones, and without an excess of detail, then the facts will speak for themselves, giving a clear idea of who the artist is, and what he has done. This is a helpful paragraph— Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Reliable sources—it explains the dangers that lie on either side of the path we should be trying to take. Yours, almost-instinct 23:40, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the good advice, I would welcome any edits you now feel necessary to improve the page, I like your milestones suggestion. As you say it's difficult when you know the person involved in a biography not to go overboard, however I guess it's only natural for people to write about a subject they enjoy. So I can learn more, how about setting me a new biographical article task ? It can be anyone not already on Wikipedia, you name the subject and I will have a go at writing it on the lines of all your suggestions. Regards, Alfshire 10:57, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Too much information?[edit]

Why is this article so long? A great deal of it smacks of promotional puff by the singer and his associates. Musically speaking he's (more or less) a nobody, and by any objective standards doesn't deserve the depth and detail of coverage he seems to be getting here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.249.203 (talk) 12:28, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. To whom can all this superficial cruft be of any interest? Let me repeat what you have said: Musically speaking he's (more or less) a nobody. Agree 100%. 15:52, 10 May 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.137.30.238 (talk)
WP can be edited by anyone. Feel free almost-instinct 19:48, 10 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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