Talk:Johnnie Notions

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This article was created or improved during the "The 20,000 Challenge: UK and Ireland", which started on 20 August 2016 and is still open. You can help!

A fact from Johnnie Notions appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 28 December 2019 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Shetlander Johnnie Notions, a physician with no formal medical background, developed a smallpox inoculation that successfully immunised thousands of people before Jenner's vaccine was available?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2019/December. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Johnnie Notions.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 00:11, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that Shetlander Johnnie Notions, a self-taught physician with no formal medical background, developed and administered an inoculation for smallpox that successfully immunised thousands of patients years before the invention of Edward Jenner's vaccine? Source: "Inoculation is successfully practised, even by the common people; but in particular by a person, whose name is John Williamson, who, from his various attainments, and superior talents, is called Johnny Notions, among his neighbours. Unassisted by education, and unfettered by the rules of art, he stands unrivalled in this business. Several thousands have been inoculated by him, and he has not lost a single patient." [1]
- ALT0b: ... that Shetlander Johnnie Notions, a physician with no formal medical background, developed a smallpox inoculation that successfully immunised thousands of patients before Edward Jenner's vaccine? Source: "Inoculation is successfully practised, even by the common people; but in particular by a person, whose name is John Williamson, who, from his various attainments, and superior talents, is called Johnny Notions, among his neighbours. Unassisted by education, and unfettered by the rules of art, he stands unrivalled in this business. Several thousands have been inoculated by him, and he has not lost a single patient." [2]
- ALT1: ... that Shetlander Johnnie Notions, developer of an inoculation for smallpox that successfully immunised thousands of patients years before the invention of Edward Jenner's vaccine, is reputed not to have lost a single patient through its administration? Source: "Inoculation is successfully practised, even by the common people; but in particular by a person, whose name is John Williamson, who, from his various attainments, and superior talents, is called Johnny Notions, among his neighbours. Unassisted by education, and unfettered by the rules of art, he stands unrivalled in this business. Several thousands have been inoculated by him, and he has not lost a single patient." [3]
  - ALT1b: ... that Shetlander Johnnie Notions, developer of a smallpox inoculation that successfully immunised thousands of patients before Edward Jenner's vaccine, is reputed not to have lost a single patient? Source: "Inoculation is successfully practised, even by the common people; but in particular by a person, whose name is John Williamson, who, from his various attainments, and superior talents, is called Johnny Notions, among his neighbours. Unassisted by education, and unfettered by the rules of art, he stands unrivalled in this business. Several thousands have been inoculated by him, and he has not lost a single patient." [4]
  - ALT1c: ... that Shetlander Johnnie Notions, developer of a smallpox inoculation that immunised thousands of patients before the discovery of Edward Jenner's vaccine, is reputed not to have lost a single patient? Source: "Inoculation is successfully practised, even by the common people; but in particular by a person, whose name is John Williamson, who, from his various attainments, and superior talents, is called Johnny Notions, among his neighbours. Unassisted by education, and unfettered by the rules of art, he stands unrivalled in this business. Several thousands have been inoculated by him, and he has not lost a single patient." [5]

Comment: The source previously listed was published in 1792, while Edward Jenner's vaccine was discovered in 1796.[6]

Created by Griceylipper (talk). Self-nominated at 19:03, 24 November 2019 (UTC).[reply]

@Griceylipper: This interesting and comprehensive article is new enough and long enough. The hook facts are cited inline, the article is neutral and I detected no copyright or plagiarism issues. However, both hooks are too long (251 characters as against a permitted 200), so can you suggest something shorter. No QPQ is needed here as this is the fourth DYK. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:09, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cwmhiraeth Thanks for the review - I have suggested a couple of condensed hooks, see what you think. Griceylipper (talk) 12:54, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Griceylipper: I'm not too keen on "before Edward Jenner's vaccine", how about ALT0c? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:50, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

- ALT0c: ... that Shetlander Johnnie Notions, a physician with no formal medical background, developed a smallpox inoculation that successfully immunised thousands of people before Jenner's vaccine was available?

Cwmhiraeth I'm quite happy with ALT0c, I have also proposed ALT1c above, how about that instead? Griceylipper (talk) 18:33, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Approving ALT0c and ALT1c. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:51, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation[edit]

Griceylipper, I don't personally think that your interpretation of an audio is a good source for the IPA or the respell given (twice) in the article. I haven't been to Shetland; how do they usually pronounce "Johnnie" there? How differently is this guy's name pronounced? Who has written about the pronunciation being different from normal? If the answer is "nobody", then this probably doesn't belong in the article. I'm also greatly against having loads of metadata cluttering the opening sentence like this; if the sourcing was there to keep it, I'd prefer it to appear only once, in the infobox for preference. --The Huhsz (talk) 22:00, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi The Huhsz - before I start and for your info I'm a native Shetlander and speak Shetland dialect. While the name "John" is pronounced here almost exactly the same as it would be in Scottish English or Standard English, the nickname "Johnnie" uses a different vowel sound - it's more like the "oh" in Joni Mitchell, rather than the 'aw' in Johnny Appleseed. I thought it relevant to include this as the common spelling of his name might imply the "Johnny Appleseed" pronunciation, which isn't the case. Also, if "John" and "Johnnie" had the same vowel sound you could write it off as a difference in pronunciation due to the dialect, but the fact they're different surely means otherwise. I don't have a written source on this pronunciation to hand at the moment, but I can assure you this is the common pronunciation of this nickname here, and this doesn't apply just to Johnnie Notions in particular - any Johnnie that is a Shetlander will be pronounced this way. A couple more examples for you - this one at the very beginning, this one about 00:40]. I do see there's a book in my "local" library (30+ miles away!) that might have relevant content I could source, I'll see if I can borrow a copy shortly and get a better source.

As for the metadata, I have no objection to you deleting either the section in the lead or the infobox, whichever you prefer. Griceylipper (talk) 23:00, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, that is very interesting. I'd rather see a footnote to the effect that "Johnnie" is pronounced with a long vowel in Shetland than the current status quo which makes it look like he was unique in having his name pronounced that way. If a written reference can be found, and you continue to think it's important, I think this would be the way to go. Thanks for writing such an interesting article by the way. --The Huhsz (talk) 23:12, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Bleaching" link - in need of clarification[edit]

"It was capable of performing the same function of bleaching as the original mill through the power of a hand-turned crank"

In Other occupations section, I suggest the link to bleaching be removed or clarified.

From that one source, it's unclear what type of mill it was (grist mill, paper mill, ore mill,...) and what was meant by bleaching. Pointing it that Wiki article is not specific enough and it could even be unrelated (e.g. if it was some contemporary term in ore processing)

Technicality nitpicker (talk) 16:01, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]