Talk:Johanan (name)

Shouldn`t there be a word of explanation here rather than just a redirect?andycjp (talk) 02:23, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result was: merge into Yohanan. -- Lindert (talk) 11:50, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal[edit]

The proposal is to merge Yohanan and Johanan with Yochanan. --Lambiam 22:08, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support. It's clearly the same name. Although Yochanan more accurately transliterates יוֹחַנַן‎, Johanan is by far the most common English form, as seen in all modern bible versions I've looked at. Therefore I think the article should be located at Johanan, making Yohanan and Yochanan a redirect. Lindert (talk) 09:48, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Johanan is the most common English form in Bible translations, but there are also J/Yo(c)hanans outside the biblical context, and then things are not so clear. Looking at existing Wikipedia articles (for which the chosen transliteration need not always have been based on careful considerations), we see this:

1	Johanan	Yochanan	Yohanan
2	Johanan (High Priest)	Yochanan Afek	Yohanan Aharoni
3	Johanan HaSandlar	Yochanan Muffs	Yohanan Alemanno
4	Johanan ben Bag-Bag	Yochanan Shochet	Yohanan Bader
5	Johanan ben Baroka	Yochanan Sofer	Yohanan Cohen
6	Johanan ben Ha-galgula	Yochanan Vollach	Yohanan Danino
7	Johanan ben Nuri	Yochanan Zweig	Yohanan Friedmann
8	Johanan ben Torta	Yochanan bar Nafcha	Yohanan Levi
9	Johanan ben Zakai		Yohanan Petrovsky-Shtern
10			Yohanan Plesner
11			Yohanan Simon

Here, the non-Johanans have a majority. However, none of the three versions is significantly stronger than any of the other two. --Lambiam 20:23, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good points, and good research. This complicates things. The problem is of course that there's no standard way to transliterate. We could also look at usage outside of Wikipedia. I did a Google and Google Scholar search with these results:

	Johanan	Yochanan	Yohanan
Google:	1.300.000	539,000	979,000
Google Scholar:	4,600	3,870	7,570

Again, no clear winner. Bottom line (for me at least): any of these three is acceptable. I'll support a merge to any of these, because merging is always better than having three separate pages that actually differ only in spelling. Lindert (talk) 23:43, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 12:00, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've decided to use Yohanan for the page title. Under each of the standards listed in the comparative table at Romanization of Hebrew, the resulting transliteration, after removing any diacritics, results in Yohanan. --Lambiam 10:56, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Which Yohanan was he?[edit]

Hi,
So, I was reading Sotah 48 and I'd like to know which Johanan is the one mentioned there. For example;

“They used to make an incision on the calf between its horns so that the blood should flow into its eyes. [Johanan] came and abolished the practice because it appeared as though [the animal had] a blemish. There is a Baraitha which teaches: They used to strike [the animal] with clubs as is the practice with idolatry. [Johanan] said to them, How long will you feed the altar with nebeloth!”

Can somebody give me a online source to guide me through Talmud readings concerning who was who? Because, there is no information in Talmud texts itself concerning this matter.-- İskenderBalas^💬 15:59, 13 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm 90 percent sure this is Yohanan ben Zakkai, a rabbi who is one of the most influential. When I tracked down the sampled text, (Please clarify Sotah 48a or b and the translation you were reading next time) the book I found was about Jesus and the Pharisees, and Yohanan was a prominent figure in that dispute. He was also famous for abolishing several practices, so I wouldn't be surprised if he abolished this one. Also, this talk page is for the article itself and not a general discussion thread about this topic. I also hope you're still around. I'm kinda late to the party here. Neonrareplasma (talk) 01:25, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]