Talk:Jewish National Fund

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The Rothschild Baron role in PJAC and the JNF[edit]

All of the land held by James Armand de Rothschild's (son of the baron Edmond James de Rothschild who the Knesset website refers to as "the founding father of the Yishuf") Palestine Jewish Colonization Association was transferred to the Jewish National Fund, I presume upon his death. James Armand de Rothschild, son of the baron Edmond James de Rothschild, was President of the Palestine Jewish Colonization Association, "All of the land held by the Palestine Jewish Colonization Association was transferred to the Jewish National Fund." (Knesset - which James Armand de Rothschild built through a 6 million lire donation.)[1][2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.84.100.133 (talk) 07:09, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://knesset.gov.il/lexicon/eng/rotchild_ja_eng.htm James Armand de Rothschild
  2. ^ https://knesset.gov.il/lexicon/eng/rotchild_ad_eng.htm baron Edmond James de Rothschild

Untitled[edit]

While the information provided in the article is important, the article is also totally biased as the organization and its many functions, especially in foresting, are not truly discssued. gidonb 03:02, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Feel free to provide more information; so far this page does not look biased to me, so I've removed the NPOV warning; can't leave something up for six months without action on it... --Martin Wisse 01:11, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Request: More on reforestation[edit]

Could someone provide further information on the sucesses of reforestation attributed to the KKL? Also, it would be splendid if comparisons with similar tree planting programs elsewhere (Central Asia, Iceland, Rapa Nui, Cape Verde Islands) could be provided. //Big Adamsky 21:46, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In an effort to offer a more rounded picture of the political role of the JNF in Israel I've added a line with a typical Palestinian point of view and some analysis of the JNF's role as a key element in the modern Israeli state including weblinks to supporting evidence from the JNF's own website. --Tom Godwin 13:59, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

JNF charter does not explicitly prohibit leasing to non-Jews[edit]

It merely specifies that the purpose of the JNF is to purchase land for the settlement of Jews. Not the same thing at all. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.68.95.65 (talk) 18:56, 6 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

NPOV[edit]

The whole Early History section is not written in an encyclopaedic manner which makes it sound very POV. Might be fixed simply by someone who knows about it rewriting the section. [[Guest9999 10:04, 13 May 2007 (UTC)]][reply]

You are quite right. In January the article was turned into a JNF promotional pamphlet by a single-purpose account and until now nobody has tried to fix it. I have now replaced a lot of the new text with previous text. There is still some of the new material present (basically the last two sections). That material should be covered, but rewording to not sound like an advertisement would be a good idea. --Zerotalk 12:43, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

quasi governmental status[edit]

I think it is generally agreed that JNF has had quasi-governmental status historically in israel, as evidenced by its co-administration of lands with the government and the specific sale of confiscated land to it by the government. I am clarifying this in the lead paragraph. Brw12 (talk) 21:35, 29 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Holdings in the end of the Mandate[edit]

According to [1], JNF had only 800 km² in 1949, with another 120 km² transferred later from PJCA. Could the 936 km² figure be the combination of these two figures?--Doron 11:26, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here are Lehn's sources: "On May 14, 1948, the JNF held 936,000 dunums; Efraim Orni, Agrarian Reform and Social Progress in Israel (Jerusalem, 1972), p. 62. A. Granott, Agrarian Reform and the Record of Israel (London: Eyre and Spottiswoode, 1956), p. 28, gives total Jewish ownership at the end of 1947 as 1,734,000 dunums; of this 933,000 were held by the JNF and the balance by other, including private, owners." Granott was the chairman of the JNF at that time. Also Lehn gives year-by-year totals from JNF sources, which pass 800 km² already in 1945. Otherwise, I dunno ;-). --Zerotalk 11:45, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note on dunams[edit]

During the Ottoman and early British period, a "dunam" meant a Turkish dunam of 919.3 square meters (0.227 acres). In Feb 1928, The British abolished it in favor of the metric dunam of 1000 square meters (0.247 acres). Quite a lot of sources convert early land areas incorrectly due to this confusion. --Zerotalk 12:31, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Please translate all Hebrew to English[edit]

! Arminden (talk) 06:59, 9 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Israeli settlements[edit]

Why I changed 'Israeli settlements' to 'Jewish settlements' is, as I understand it, if you are an Israeli Christian or an Israeli Muslim or an Israeli Druze you would have difficulty buying a property in most (all?) of these 'settlements' (or possibly colonies?). It has been reverted. No surprise. But it is not accurate. In my humble ... Padres Hana (talk) 17:11, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Padres, I am not quibbling with your assertions above. But there are Jews in Israel and all over the world, such as myself, for one, who oppose Israeli settlement in the conquered territories. Your edit summary claimed that "Israeli settlement" was not precise enough. In this context, this is precisely what it is: Israeli settlement. Who the settlers are in this specific context is beyond the political definition. Thank you, warshy (¥¥) 17:20, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
These assertions are wrong. Not only can an Israeli Christian or an Israeli Muslim or an Israeli Druze buy or lease property there, non-Israeli Palestinians can, as well: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-settlements/leave-or-let-live-arabs-move-in-to-jewish-settlements-idUSKBN0JL0D620141207 Kenosha Forever (talk) 18:49, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The great majority of West Bank settlements do not allow Arabs to live there. A tiny number of exceptions doesn't change that. However, I agree with warshy that "Israeli" is better. The question of who lives that should be covered as well with proper sources. Zerotalk 04:22, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Zero0000, I don't think that is true. Certainly, there aren't many Arabs who live there, but that is due to reasons of not feeling welcome or not wanting to legitimize the settlements, not because they are legally prevented from it, certainly not in the large towns/cities in the west Bank. And a number of counter-examples, small as they might be, proves the falsity of the claim that they are not allowed. But the bottom line is that we agree that "Israeli" is better. Kenosha Forever (talk) 14:59, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The councils of settlements have the power in practice to decide who moves in and most will not allow Arabs. Zerotalk 00:03, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not all settlements have such councils, and the councils have no such legal power, which means their decision can be appealed. Your opinion that " most will not allow Arabs. " is just that, your opinion, and we don't; write encyclopedia articles based on editors' opinions. Kenosha Forever (talk) 00:18, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I have no opinion on this subject; I'm just reporting what I have read multiple times in reliable sources. I will provide sources if I decide to edit the article. Zerotalk 01:28, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The US arm[edit]

The article is describing the US arm as a fund raising arm for the Israeli entity. https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-keren-kayemeth-who-how-jewish-national-fund-usa-divorced-its-israeli-counterpart-1.9546714 (and https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-jnf-postpones-vote-on-controversial-west-bank-land-purchases-1.9736386) are saying that the two orgs are essentially separate (although there is a clear past relationship).Selfstudier (talk) 10:59, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring[edit]

Please would involved parties discuss here. In my opinion there should be something of the disputed material in this article but perhaps it can be summarized into something shorter? Selfstudier (talk) 13:56, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi SelfStudier, I've received a message from OgamD218 and User:Zero0000 stating I should not be editing this page however I assume this doesn't extend to the talk page? JNF-KKL and JNF-UK and in some aspect considered two different organisations, although some would note this as deliberate given the controversy of JNF-KKL and the UK branch wishing to distance itself (I have some citations that can be provided to this effect if you would like). It may be viable as an alternative that a sepprate page of JNF-UK is created and edits in the UK section are transfer there with a link to JNF-KKL (this page). In regards to disputed material I am not confidence these were made in good faith seeing as the UK Jewish Newspapers were printing weekly and sometimes daily on the events that have recently unfolded which resulted in JNF being censured. If anything at least that aspect the censured should remain in the article. I would be in favour of a sepprate page with keeping the full detail. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scorchgider (talk • contribs) 20:14, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Selfstudier: I definitely agree that the content belongs but should be shortened. I apologize, I did not see this post until a moment ago and went ahead and trimmed the section to best extent I could. @Scorchgider: yes you're permitted to post freely on the talk page like any other editor and thank you for coming to the talk page to discuss this matter and not continuing to edit war-@Pauleredge: please follow this example. I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say in the second half of your post however, please clarify what exactly you mean by In regards to disputed material I am not confidence these were made in good faith seeing as the UK Jewish Newspapers were printing weekly and sometimes daily on the events that have recently unfolded which resulted in JNF being censured? OgamD218 (talk) 04:01, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
My first impression is that the wording maybe should be changed to JNF Israel as opposed to JNF-KKL which is somewhat confusing and not widely used in the article otherwise. The fact that the JNF's international affiliates are (and long have been) incorporated as independent entities means they're per-se separate organizations but not in a way that requires the drafting of separate articles imho, the longstanding intent of all these groups is still to operate as part of a single whole. OgamD218 (talk) 04:10, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
https://jstreet.org/press-releases/jnf-kkls-proposal-to-officially-fund-illegal-settlement-expansion-is-outrageous-and-unacceptable/ says that "However, JNF-USA transfers large sums of money to their Israeli counterpart on a regular basis." can we try and pin down the exact relationship between the entities? Selfstudier (talk) 11:51, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Selfstudier: @Scorchgider: idk how to word it without tedious dets of the JNF's history (IE its founding predates that of Israel's but it was founded w/ the purpose of being for Israel) and/or regarding multiple domestic laws of incorporation-IE historically the rights of political orgs to operate outside of the country on whose behalf they operate were highly restricted for obvious reasons. Al JNFs could have reincorp'd either in their bylaws or re-allocation of Board (or w.e the corp ruling body is of the JNF) member seats or shares. While this would've made the overseas JNFs officially subservient to the a/the Israeli org, it comes w/ a host of undesirables-some of which would be unpredictable. The JNFs would become foreign assets that could be unilaterally seized and/or sued for the activities of the israeli JNF-I'd say esp the Euro JNFs would not want to be open that kind of liability. Without a special waiver (like that given to the RC Church) the JNF in the US would have to at the very least register as a Foreign Agent + be subject to other reg scrutiny. As they predate israel they enjoy greater freedom to use the JNF brand-incl for fundraising-denying the IsraeliJNF power to assign/deny trademarks/copyrights etc. I guess one could describe the relationship as "overseas affiliates"-"chapters" or "franchises" is misleading. OgamD218 (talk) 23:21, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@OgamD218: Don't worry about the trimming. I actually think it looks a lot better than it has done previously, you've actually made it easier to read. In regards to my second half just so it's on the records. Selfstudier stated in the beginning of this talk section stated "disputed material". I thought that was to mean the constant edits and reverts that were going on between myself and Pauleredge. Essentially what I was trying to say is that the reasons of "undue weight" for the reverts were not sufficiently justified () given that it was heavily in the press. Apologies if I made that unclear. I am not familiar with the long term history of JNF, only the short term. But given however I notice many organisations that are worldwide just have sections in different countries on the same page. I now think the standard would be to keep one page. Can I ask your view if you believe that overseas affiliates"-"chapters" or "franchises" are misleading. How would you describe the different organisations on JNF in different countries, given that on occasion they attempt to distance themselves from each other. I'd also like to add that each country should either have it's own infobox section or have members of those countries listed if they are both key people and have their own Wikipedia page. Scorchgider (talk) 23:50, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Error in section "2021 Controversy"[edit]

The second sentence of section "2021 Controversy" includes the words:

Hayek claimed the evidence lied in "the number of immigrants to England. ..."

The word "lied" is incorrect. The most likely correct word in this context is "lay". Another possibility is "lies". Misha Wolf (talk) 22:03, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In the absence of any response, I've replaced "lied" with "lay". Misha Wolf (talk) 15:29, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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