Talk:Jalia Kaibarta

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Content[edit]

@Ekdalian and Chaipau: Hello mates. I've seen that you guys have been removing this. But the content has been re-added. Are the sources supporting the content? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 09:28, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: I have not been able to verify that Luipa was a Jalia Kaibarta. The Paniker reference does not mention it, and I do not have access to Dasgupta. If you see it, then I shall let it be. Thanks for bringing it to my notice. Chaipau (talk) 09:36, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Chaipau: Couldn;t access Dasgupta either and Panicker doesn't mention it. I beleive we can remove it. Ekdalian has been reverting this, so I wonder. Lets wait for him. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 09:46, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, exactly. Fylindfotberserk, I also could not access Dasgupta, and Paniker does not mention it; seems to be a POV edit in order to promote the community. Since the same couldn't be verified, I believe it should be removed. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 18:48, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ekdalian and Chaipau: I have removed it. Thanks for the suggestions. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:59, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Restored the edition removed by you[edit]

The fact that you, guys, do not have access to some source quoted by someone else, can never be a good reason to remove an edit. The fact is only a proof of your incompetence in searching for a book that is very easlily accessible through Internet Archive - in four copies of different editions. Therefore I have restored it. and edited a bit. noychoH (talk) 13:19, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@NoychoH: Well, thanks for adding this but refrain from making personal attacks and maintain WP:CIVIL. Also do not add unsourced content, original researches and POV content that looks like promotion of certain community as you did by writing "Kaibbarta community have a great contribution in shaping towards modern Assam.". - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 13:33, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@NoychoH: footnote 4 in page 384 (3rd edition) mentions that Luipa belongs to the fisherman caste in a Buddhist book. It is WP:OR to claim that this fisherman caste is Jalia Kaibarta, unless it is specifically mentioned. Chaipau (talk) 11:37, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Chaipau: That's why I reworded it this way, since Matsyendranath, with whom Lui-pa is identified, is mentioned as a Kaibarta in the source. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:16, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Need some expert attention[edit]

This page seems to require some expert attention because the situation is complex.

The Kaibarta people are spread over a large area, not just Bengal. They are found in Assam and Odisha too. It is probably best to develop this article as Kaivarta people.
In Assam, they find mention very early. They are also called as Keots. Their position in Assam is comparatively better than in other places.
The Doms and Nadiyals (at least in Assam) are different but they sometimes call themselves as Kaivartas. It seems non-Dom and non-Nadiyal Kaivartas resent this.

This is a brief description [1]. There are problems with this source (too much reliance on racial types etc.) but it is a good starting point. Chaipau (talk) 19:59, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Caste or a community[edit]

@Jonathansammy, Ekdalian, Chaipau, Austronesier, TrangaBellam, LukeEmily, Homogenie, Chanchaldm, and Dear Debasish:
Is this social group a community or a caste? If it is a caste, as implied by its inclusion in the Scheduled Caste List of these states, the WP:BLP rules will apply when including names under the 'Notable people' list. That is this edit by Homogenie will not be valid here, since the subject Hima Das is a living person and as per multiple consensus including this→Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics/Archive_49#Mentioning_caste_of_Individuals, a person should self-identify his/her caste. The accompanying source [2] doesn't demonstrate anything like that. No self-identification. On top of that it seems like an essay piece on the subject. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:38, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You are right; this is a caste. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 17:42, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Caste, as in jati. Yes, BLP applies. Also Sentinel newspaper is not reliable. Chaipau (talk) 17:46, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

They used to be a tribal community , which took caste identity through Sanskritisation in much later period.Chanchaldm (talk) 19:27, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Ekdalian, Chaipau, and Chanchaldm: Thanks for your inputs. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 19:57, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The 2012 consensus in WT:IN was about mentioning caste in BLPs. Although this might appear as hair-splitting, the current issue is with the inclusion of a person that has a WP page in a list of notable people in a XXX people/tribe/caste article. It is of course the mirror image of mentioning group/caste etc. identity in a BLP, so I agree to apply the creiteria of the WT:IN-consensus here; otherwise we will have insufficiently supported information entering through the backdoor. –Austronesier (talk) 20:07, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]