Talk:Jaggang

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Location[edit]

Coordinates —

32°52′28″N–79°50′37″E (32.874444, 79.843611)
32°54′10″N–79°46′38″E (32.902778, 79.777222)
32°54'16.4"N 79°40'14.6"E (32.90455, 79.67071) map=17
32.8743876,79.8451354

DTM (talk) 07:53, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kautilya3, please have a look at the current infobox coordinates for this page. Would you say the coordinates are correct?

What is this >> OSM Node: 3127745564 (32.9045257, 79.6716260) DTM (talk) 09:09, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The infobox is pointing to the new Chinese village, I think. It seems to have been built next to an old camping site.

The original village seems to be a little upstream, at 32°51′28″N 79°53′51″E / 32.8579°N 79.8976°E.

The other OSM Node you point to is obviously a huge military base. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 12:28, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The old Chiakang is now a military post as well, spelt Qiekan. The current place is the old "Churkang". It was on the route between Tashigang and Rutog. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 13:23, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DiplomatTesterMan, I have removed references to Chiakang, because it is the wrong location for it. And, I have added a mention of Churkang. I will leave the clean-up of the Infobox to you. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 15:03, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kautilya3: One point needs clarification. You have added ...the Dumchele border trading point in Skakjung. However the article Dumchele has the line: Areas between Dumchele and Demchok such as [...] Skakjung are China administered territories.. This is a contradiction. Is "Dumchele in Skakjung"? OR is "Skakjung located between Dumchele and Demchok"? I can't make out from the map on Skakjung due to the fold (?). DTM (talk) 06:03, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please ignore last message DTM (talk) 06:08, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your sources are confused, I am afraid. The Brigadier Malhotra wrote "Demchok" instead of "Dumchele".

As for Stobdan, the less said the better. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 09:00, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kautilya3 The coordinate I was talking about above, OSM Node: 3127745564, which you said is a military base; I think that is Jiagang. Look at the images of Jiangang in the Chinese sources. The structures and layout look similar. Also, I don't think it is a military base; does it look like one? If not Jiagang, then Churkang? DTM (talk) 14:22, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ahhh, sorry, I am not thinking enough before writing. DTM (talk) 14:35, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, all the current locations of military bases would have had villages earlier. But those are now gone. Perhaps those people moved to the Jaggang valley. If the place is a real village now, you would expect to see much more farmlands and camping grounds. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 15:31, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, you are right. The place you showed matches the picture on page 2 of the Xinhuanet article. Moreover, Tianditu says it is Jiagang Cun (screenshot). So you win! -- Kautilya3 (talk) 16:29, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So, what is the old place that we were thinking of as Jiagang? It has a name in Chinese. MarkH21 will have to tell us what it says. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 17:16, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kautilya3 and DiplomatTesterMan: I can't see the characters clearly (could you upload a higher resolution image?), but the first two characters appear to say 沃卖 (pinyin: wòmài). I can't really see the third character clearly enough to guess at what it says. — MarkH₂₁^talk 22:54, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yup. It is Womai Xiong. There was an English label in the neighbourhood. But I wasn't sure. (Somebody on OSM marked it as Jiagang. So I was thrown off the wrong track. But DTM had the better sense to question it.) -- Kautilya3 (talk) 23:05, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Churkang[edit]

I think I have found the old Churkang also, marked as Qukang on Tianditu. It is exactly where the Pundits of British Raj found it to be. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 16:56, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

First time I am coming across Tianditu! This is a good reference for checking on places like Jiagang! DTM (talk) 13:39, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Related claim by Claude Arpi[edit]

Kautilya3, remember how Chagkang or Chiakang was removed from the article in this edit. I read this just now... Claude Arpi writes —

The Chinese website said that "Jaggang Village is located in the southern part of Rutog County, 70 kilometers away from the county town. It is a typical plateau village." But it is not an ordinary village, it is also known as Chagkang or Chiakang and situated very close to Demchok in Ladakh. (source)

DTM (talk) 13:31, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we know the precise locations of all the three places: Chiakang, Churkang and the new Jaggang. They are all different. We can add a section on Chiakang, just like we did for Churkang, if there is information available. (May be "Chagkang" is another traditional village that gave rise to the present "Jaggang".)

Incidentally, I think we should move this page to "Jaggang", which already had an article and a template entry before you created this page. (I made it a redirect to this page later.) But "Jaggang" is the name used in Xinhuanet in English. So I think that is its real name. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 13:43, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There isn't much else to go by, so yes, Jaggang seems more suitable. DTM (talk) 14:06, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I have fixed up the page with Jaggang as the primary name. You need to file a technical move request to the "Jaggang" page title. (I also added a brief mention of Chiakang, but I don't have any more info on it than its map location.) -- Kautilya3 (talk) 20:00, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well I did request for deletion of Jaggang under CSD G6 to make way for the move. DTM (talk) 15:26, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jaggang move complete! Yay! DTM (talk) 08:21, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Great. In future, please use the Technical move requests instead of CSD, because the protocol for it may be clearer. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 08:43, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tibetan name[edit]

Hi DiplomatTesterMan, do you remember where the Tibetan script name came from? (ལྕགས་སྒང)

It looks like the confusions we had earlier are real. The original Jaggang village is on the other side of Maga Tsangpo. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 16:36, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kautilya3. The Estonian Language Institute. link DTM (talk) 11:11, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, thanks. I found it later yesterday. It looks like "Jaggang" itself is an acceptable pronounciation of the Tibetan name. I also found a Wylie-like translitertion of the Tibetan name. And "Jiagang" is apparently just a defect of the Chinese transliteration. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 13:14, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]