Talk:Israeli couscous

just another form of pasta

Nothing special about it. --Shuki (talk) 00:20, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

See list of pasta, all pastas have their own articles. Epson291 (talk) 14:43, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

The Only Unique israeli contribution

Actually this stuff is known to Lebanese and Syrians,its called mughrabiyyah, and I´m jewish BTW so I´m not trying to insinuate anything —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.49.44 (talk • contribs)

I am sorry to say this but in turkey we know a traditional dish called pit pit [1] (link is in turkish, sorry) that is almost exactly the same as ptitim. It is made of cracked wheat with molten butter (and tomato sauce) over it and deep fried onions. Sometimes molasses is used instead of butter (and tomatosauce). Ibrahim4048 (talk) 07:50, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Greetings! Unfortunately many articles on Wikipedia suffer from WP:CSB. That said, historically, many similar-appearing foods have developed independent of each other for various reasons. In other instances, foods have been adopted and changed by various cultures (ie: the hamburger is now eaten world wide, but aside from a bun and meat/soy pattie, its condiments and ingredients vary among different cultures and countries). If you can find english-language sources (since this is english wikipedia) about Pitpit or Mughrabiyyah, then please help to improve wikipedia by creating articles on those food items. In addition, once sourced information about them is obtained, they can be mentioned in the Ptitim article as being similar foods that are enjoyed by other cultures or countries. Thank you for bringing this to our collective attention, and helping to make Wikipedia a truely all-inclusive community. --Nsaum75 (talk) 18:38, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately pit pit is a very traditional recipe, so traditional that it is not widely known by the younger educated urban generation (who use the internet and know english) and since it is a very basic dish eaten mostly by peasants it is not known outside turkey so it was hard to find an english recipe. I have found an english site which has the recipe though. The recipe [2] (use ctrl-f to search for pit pit because there are more recipes) is not completely as I know it. It says bulgur flour (cooking flour in water? must be a mistake) instead of the cracked wheat or bulgur which I know is used in pit pit. The recipes "helise" and "Gus Gus Pilavı" on the same site also seem similar to ptitim. It don't understand the story why ptitim was created and how it is different from couscous or pasta/vermicelli. As I understand it, in a time when rice was scarce Ben Gurion ordered some small pasta to be made in the form of rice and later on the shape was changed into small balls like couscous but bigger so that he could meet the needs of mizrahi jews who ate rice or couscous. If as I understand it, ptitim is prepared similar to couscous and called israeli couscous why create ptitim in the first place? What changes if you make couscous bigger? Pasta/vermicelli in the form of rice also already existed, there is for example greek kritharaki [3] or turkish sehriye [4]. Ibrahim4048 (talk) 21:54, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, being Israeli, and eating both Ptitim and Couscous, it is not the same thing. Couscous is made from semolina, and is served with vegetables such as carrot and zukini and chickpeas. Ptitim is based on a Jewish Eastern European dish called Ferfalach, and is made of flour rich in gloten, and is baked. To prepare it, it is cooked with water, similar to rice, and is served sometimes alone, sometimes with onion / onion and cooked tomatoes, or with different vegetables. It is never served as Couscous, with Couscous's vegetables. From the fact that today people eat in Israel pasta and rice and Couscous and Ptitim, you can understand that these are not similar products, "just bigger". (109.67.34.61 (talk) 00:19, 14 June 2011 (UTC)noavic)

Another name

I learned of this dish by the name "Jerusalem couscous". A google search indicates that I am not the only one, but it does appear to be a less popular name. [5]. Might be nice to include it. --Nolandda (talk) 23:09, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Maftoul

A source was given trying to compare ptitim to maftoul, however it was a very weak one (casually written informal article). to my best of knowledge, they are different (though i can't source that claim either). can anyone come up with something tangible? 87.69.106.11 (talk) 16:22, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree an historical claim will require a bit stronger source. While there might have been an influence, it might as well have been from Orzo, which from asking a friend I hear is quite close to rice shaped ptitim, both in shape and in consistence. I rewrote the lead removing the historical claim, and added a note about similarity instead, as this can be easily sourced (which I did). --Muhandes (talk) 23:01, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

IMO the shape issue could be expanded. The pictures now seem to be largely the large spherical version which doesn't look like rice, they do actually look a fair bit like large couscous even if the manner of production and preparation may be fairly different (according to a commentator in a thread above)). Our article also seems to suggest that the spherical version is traditional. Modern risoni looks far more like rice than the spherical ptitim, and as I understand it there are similar Greek, Turkish and possibly other variants of pasta that have a similar shape. (Often with a name derived from barley I assume because barley has a similar shape fairly typical of seeds or grains of course, and barley was more common in those places than rice. The American name for risoni, orzo has the same connection.) I don't know for sure if the modern shape was around in the 1950s but I sort of expect so, so I would assume the knowledge of how to make something that shape was already out there, although it will depend on the production method, source materials etc. It's possible what works for risoni etc wouldn't for for this. And the most important feature of a substitute would like be how the product can be used as well as taste, texture etc rather than look so not looking like rice may be a minor detail. However since I read that this was developed in part to be a rice substitute and is also called "Ben-Gurion rice" I was sort of expecting something that looks like rice. Which leaves me wondering, is the rice shape actually the original variant and our article misleads or is the spherical version actually the traditional version and the rice shaped version more recent perhaps with modern production techniques making it easier, or is our article correct and this didn't generally look like rice despite the name and purpose? Nil Einne (talk) 12:35, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Nil Einne the rice shape is the original variant according to The Book of New Israeli Food and Zahav. Spudlace (talk) 17:09, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. To be fair, the lead does say shaped like rice grains but I was confused because of the picture and the body. Reading it more carefully the section which concerned me is somewhat ambigious "extruding dough through a round mold, before it is cut and toasted, giving it the uniform natural-grain-like shape". I interpreted uniform natural-grain-like shape to mean spherical (totally uniform) but I guess it could simply mean rice like/oval (which is probably more common among grains anyway as I mentioned). Also it's uncertain if this is how it was originally made or how it's made now. I initially interpreted it to mean how it was originally made but to be fair it's in the preparation section not the history one. (I'm not totally sure if simply extruding dough through a round mold and then cutting would produce the rice shape but I could be wrong.) I had a look at the source, Forward and while it doesn't clarify that aspect, it also mentions rice-shape being the initial variety and the pearl/ball shape only coming later to emulate couscous. So I've put this in the history section. BTW, Forward also suggests the heart shaped etc varieties were produced a decade later so I assume in the early 1960s. To my mind now produced in ring, star, and heart shapes for added appeal makes it sound more like this is much more recent, maybe in the 1980s or later. Forward also suggests these varieties may have partly predated the popularity with children whereas our article wording seems to suggest the opposite. Still I didn't try to deal with these. Another interesting question which our article probably should deal with one day is whether the ball/pearl shape is now more popular than the rice-shape one, which may not be completely surprising since there is I assume less need for a rice substitute. Nil Einne (talk) 18:34, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Exact pronunciation

Hello there! I am Korean wikipedia user trying to translate pasta-related articles. I am not sure which pronunciation would be suitable for this case!! Please help me!! If it is okay, visit my page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.200.90.176 (talk) 11:44, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

It's pronounced ptee|teem, with the | separating the two syllables, and the stress on the second syllable. I hope that's clear; I don't know IPA. InverseHypercube (talk) 03:06, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

So is that IPA [ptitim] where 'i' is the 'ee' vowel, with no vowel between 'p' and 't'? Or is there a small/unstressed vowel in there somewhere, such as [pətitim], where 'ə' is the schwa, such as the sound made by the 'a's in "comma" or "about"? 2610:130:104:200:14B1:521D:58F7:381F (talk) 14:31, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Ben Gurion rice

I've heard this referred to as "Ben Gurion rice". Worth adding as an alternative name? I don't known enough about Hebrew/Jewish cuisine to know if this term is common.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  08:01, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

It's been added to the infobox [6] although AFAICT it was in the article since it was started [7] [8] Nil Einne (talk) 18:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

coated

Pls. explain what you mean with "coated". Maarten van Thiel The Netherlands