Talk:Ismail (disambiguation)

Requested move 1

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 03:11, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Ismail → Ismail (disambiguation) — Requesting with "Ismail (name)" be moved to "Ismail". The main topic is the name "Ismail", the "Ismail" page shouldn't just be a link to the similar "Izmail" and the name page. Once moved, a hatnote on the main "Ismail" page with a link to the "Ismail (disambiguation)" page will be better.--John Cengiz talk 00:07, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

• Comment this is an incorrectly formatted multi-move request. 65.94.45.238 (talk) 06:03, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support/Oppose I think it should redirect to Ishmael. 65.94.45.238 (talk) 06:03, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose - the primary use of "Ismail" is the prophet (it's just a different spelling really). So either retain as a disambig page or redirect to Ishmael.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:36, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
• Comment - the primary use of "Ismail" is people with the Arabic name (looks similar to "Ishmael" but is pronounced Ees-mah-eel), since "Islamic view of Ishmael" redirects to "Ishmael", and "Ismail" is an empty dab page, "Ismail" is better formatted the way I am asking. You cannot have Ibrahim, redirect to Abraham and such like. John Cengiz talk 16:56, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
• Comment: This should have been listed as a joint move with Talk:Ismail_(name)#Requested_move. Snowman (talk) 22:17, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Ismail (name) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 14:00, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Islamic views on Abraham which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 20:14, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Abraham in Islam which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 14:58, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 2

Requested move/dated|Ishmael in Islam}}

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved. Nominator has proposed an alternative below. --BDD (talk) 05:43, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Ismail → Ishmael in Islam – as below. Md iet (talk) 06:02, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

The proposer intended to request a different move: Ismail → Ismail (disambiguation) – Fayenatic London 13:00, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

The Ismail is most common name for prophet Ismail of Islam and not others. If consensus is there we may redirect 'Ismail ' to 'Ismael in Islam' and rename page 'Ismail' as 'Ismail(dismbiguation)'.

The justification is as follows:

Traffic to Ismail-- http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Ismail. 3202

Ismail_(name)--http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Ismail_(name) 1502

Ismael,_Sar-e_Pol --http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Ismael,_Sar-e_Pol 166

Russian_torpedo_boat_Ismail --http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Russian_torpedo_boat_Ismail 193

Izmail----http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Izmail 2765

Borodino-class_battlecruiser ---http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Borodino-class_battlecruiser 26

Ishmael_in_Islam --http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Ishmael_in_Islam 2265

Above traffic indicate that all traffic which have gone via Ismail is 3202.

Individual traffic to all pages covered in article Ismail indicates max. of 2765 which is for Izmail a having different spelling, single specific article of a small city of Ukraine named their as Izmail having special article already meant for it. This can be excluded from our this study, as there is possibility of very little traffic via word ‘Ismail’.

If we consider all other topics total traffic =1502+166+193+26=1887

If we take all this traffic then also min traffic which gone to Ishmael article via Ismail is 3202-1887= 1315.

This proves that all the traffic via Ismail gone to article related with Ishmael is 1315 which is comparable with 1502 total traffic which is gone to Ismail (Name) which is for all personality related with Ismail name clubbed together.

If we have further compare Izmail further traffic which is directly gone to Ishmael in Islam 2265 then traffic for prophet Ismail totals to 1315+2265=3580 which are absolute traffic which were supposed to go to prophet Ismail

Above figures justfy 'Ismail' as common name for 'Ishmael in Islam'.--Md iet (talk) 05:52, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Comment. I think your request is confused. It is not possible to move the current page at Ismail to Ishmael in Islam because there is already a page at the target name. What you appear to want is to move the current page to Ismail (disambiguation) and then change Ismail to be a redirect to the target. It will help the discussion if you are precise describing what in what you actually want to achieve. older ≠ wiser 11:32, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

I concur, I think this could be an incompetent move request, but I suggest we put this on hold until we have sorted out a comparable naming issue in relation to Abraham. PatGallacher (talk) 19:18, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Having looked at the Abraham discussion further, it's been concluded, and I agree with turning "Ismail" into a redirect to "Ishmael in Islam", not sure how we handle the technicalities here. We could do a non-admin close and set up a new move request. PatGallacher (talk) 19:29, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

I've added a link to the Ishmael in Islam article to this dab page, which was missing hitherto. PamD 22:22, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Support redirect of Ismail to Ishmael in Islam. Meanwhile, we should probably move current page to Ismail (disambiguation) barring any better idea. Possible merge later to Ishmael (disambiguation). Red Slash 00:00, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Oppose The main reason people come to the "Ismail" name page is for information on the Arabic name. It's main purpose is not to redirect to a standard "... in Islam" page. "Ismail" [ˈiːsmɑːˈiːl] and "Ishmael" /ɪʃˈmeɪl/ - they look similar but are quite different names. There are many, many, more people with the name "Ismail" on Wikipedia than "Ishmael", try searching "site:en.wikipedia.org ismail". "Ishmael" is a rarely used old English name, whereas "Ismail" is a very common Arabic, Turkish, Persian, etc name of all ages, people going to the "Ismail" page are more likely looking for people with the name. John Cengiz talk 08:38, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Do you have any evidence for this? Md iet may not have expressed himself very well, but he did provide some serious traffic statistics that the son of Abraham and Hagar, ancestor of the Arabs, is the primary meaning of Ismail. There are several other people with this name, but people are likely to search for them using their full name. For example, the primary meaning of Abraham is the biblical figure, in spite of it being a fairly common name e.g. Abraham Lincoln. PatGallacher (talk) 13:37, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose - the wrong redirect is being proposed. The evidence supports a redirect to Ishmael, for which "Ismail" is an alternative spelling.
  Article traffic to Ishmael in the past 30 days was 29719 - vastly more than all the other pages linked to by the page on Ismail. --Toddy1 (talk) 15:36, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Main aim is to person searching 'Ismail' should reach to prophet Ismail first rather than through other means as 'Ismail' is most common name of prophet rather then any other personality. ‘Ishmael in Islam’ is also topic of prophet and from that topic one can easily move to Main topic 'Ishmael' if he desires.--Md iet (talk) 04:05, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Why Ishmael in Islam and not Ishmael? "Ishmael" gets more than six times as many views than "Ishmael in Islam", making it fairly clear that "Ishmael in Islam" is not the primary topic of "Ismail". Ishmael (last 30 days) 30340 views, Ishmael in Islam (last 30 days) 4799 views.--Toddy1 (talk) 04:47, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

It can be Ishmael also, but main traffic through word 'Ismail' is more channelized toward Islamic prophet and would be more justified please.--Md iet (talk) 05:50, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

There is no evidence for your opinion that "main traffic through word 'Ismail' is more channelized toward Islamic prophet".--Toddy1 (talk) 07:10, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

OK, to achieve our aim we may redirect Ismail to Ishmael as suggested as there is no doubts for traffic to Ishmael and Ismail has similar spellings and meant for singular personality, as done in case of Ibrahim etc.--Md iet (talk) 05:32, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose odd request, why turn a dab into a redirect like this? Ishmael in Islam should retain "in Islam" - we're talking about the same individual and English sources use the same name per Category:Muslim views of biblical figures In ictu oculi (talk) 08:46, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
  • I have clarified this nomination to match the proposer's stated intentions. – Fayenatic London 13:00, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

The above move may be closed and as discussed this deserve redirect as below.--Md iet (talk) 06:40, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 3

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move. There seems to be a clear consensus for the move. Whether the original title should redirect to Ishmael or Ishmael in Islam is not clear. However, there seems to be a slight preference for Ishmael, although it's not based on any objective evidence. A new hatnote at the top of the Ishmael could direct those looking for the Ishmael in Islam article there without going through Ismail (disambiguation). -- tariqabjotu 03:30, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

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• Ismail → Ismail (disambiguation) – As discussed above the move is modified for Ismail is to be redirected to Ishmael and Ismail to be moved to 'Ismail (disambiguation)'. 'Ismail' is most common name in Islam for 'Ishmael' and it deserves at least redirect to Ishmael please.--Md iet (talk) 06:31, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose dab needed here. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:41, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
• Complete justification with Data base provided above there is already support from following:

- user User talk:Red Slash: Support redirect of Ismail to Ishmael in Islam. Meanwhile, we should probably move current page to Ismail (disambiguation) barring any better idea. Possible merge later to Ishmael (disambiguation). Red Slash 00:00, 9 June 2013 (UTC)',

- PatGallacher : "looked at the Abraham discussion further, it's been concluded, and from I agree with turning "Ismail" into a redirect to "Ishmael in Islam", not sure how we handle the technicalities here. We could do a non-admin close and set up a new move request. PatGallacher (talk) 19:29, 8 June 2013 (UTC)'

-user --Toddy1 and has also opinion that Ishmael can be better redirect then Ishmael in Islam--Md iet (talk) 07:10, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

further view requested.--Md iet (talk) 07:10, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

• Support redirection of Ismail to Ishmael as primary meaning, moving the disambiguation page accordingly. – Fayenatic London 12:32, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
• Support - I'd have thought this is a fairly clear primary topic. Others on disambig page are all derivatives of it.  — Amakuru (talk) 23:07, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose See my comments from 9 June 2013 at Requested move 2. John Cengiz talk 23:21, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
  • You didn't reply to PatGallacher's response to those comments, above at 13:37, 9 June 2013. – Fayenatic London 20:21, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.