Talk:Iron Fist policy

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POV title[edit]

This discussion has been disrupted by block evasion, ban evasion, or sockpuppetry from the following user:

Kenosha Forever (talk · contribs · block log · spi · lta)

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Free1Soul (talk · contribs · block log · spi · lta)

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We don't usually use official names used by one side on WP and we already have 1982 Lebanon War , Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon & Israeli–Lebanese conflict for example.Selfstudier (talk) 14:16, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please feel free to suggest an alternative name and open an RM discussion on that. The subject of this article is clearly smaller and more focused than Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon and Israeli–Lebanese conflict, and does not fall within 1982 Lebanon War, so a simple merge to any of those is not appropriate. FOARP (talk) 14:29, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.amazon.com/Iron-Fist-Israels-Occupation-1982-1985/dp/B000OMYEJ2 Selfstudier (talk) 14:32, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not opposed in principle to a different name but "We don't usually use official names used by one side" is simply not true. Operation Whalers, Operation Red Wings,Operation Pastel, Operation Downfall, many, many others. Kenosha Forever (talk) 15:25, 10 April 2021 (UTC) Blocked sock.[reply]

And in the area of Arab-Israeli affairs, Operation Beach Boys, Operation Entebbe, Operation Opera. I'm very open to an alternative name but I honestly don't see any easy ones (a descriptive title would be something like: "1985 Israeli military raids against Palestinian and Lebanese targets", and even this, not all raids launched by Israel during that period were done under this policy). FOARP (talk) 18:06, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Title is good. The title is appropriate as a name of an Israeli policy.Free1Soul (talk) 15:50, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Although it's still NPOV, the thing is, it would have been better if the Lebanese used another name, but they usually use that Israeli name. Iron fist, grapes of wrath, litani... -- Maudslay II (talk) 06:21, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Scope[edit]

@Nishidani: @Selfstudier:, Like the Nakba article, it would be better if we determine the scope of this article.

Israeli–Lebanese conflict: About everything in general.
1982 Lebanon War: Invasion until 1985
South Lebanon conflict (1985–2000): Hezbollah debuts + Iron Fist policy (in general) + Operation Grapes of Wrath (in general) + Withdrawl and everything in between
Iron Fist policy + Operation Grapes of Wrath: In general, we talk about the important stuff, and mention the lesser ones.
Zrarieh massacre + Nabatieh Fawka massacre + Maarakeh massacre: We mention them in the first articles, and then we create their own (if we can). -- Maudslay II (talk) 16:21, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think the matter should be restricted to those events that occurred as a result of the adoption of the Iron Fist policy focusing on South Lebanon 1985-1986. One should not allow oneself to get distracted by the larger historical picture, since what makes articles interesting are the specifics, the details. A very fine overview is Mowles' article, which could provide the framework (Political/Military/Economics etc.Nishidani (talk) 18:09, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It was the policy in Palestine as well from August 85 and then beefed up by Rabin in 87. You can translate Iron Fist as "excessive use of force" and Israel was subjected to UN condemnations for it. The Lebanon version was the same sort of thing afaics, how dare you resist our occupation sort of thing.Selfstudier (talk) 18:13, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

One problem here is that Israeli politicians seem to have used the phrase "Iron Fist" somewhat willy-nilly, and the actual policy was never fully defined. I think it is only legitimate to talk about an actual "Iron fist policy" in about 1985-1986 (when people were talking about an actual "Iron Fist policy"), at least given the sourcing we've got here - of course new sources might change that. FOARP (talk) 07:56, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]