Talk:Iraq al-Manshiyya

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

Palestine High‑importance

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Cities

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cities, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of cities, towns and various other settlements on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CitiesWikipedia:WikiProject CitiesTemplate:WikiProject CitiesWikiProject Cities articles

History Low‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

The lands of Gat[edit]

if indeed the kibbuts was established in 1941, while British authorities were in charge, how could it have possibly been established on the village lands? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sko Sko 2014 (talk • contribs) 07:32, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Very easily: they took over their land after 1948. Lots of established kibbutz did that. Huldra (talk) 22:39, 21 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I did not tag the part which is post-1948, but the part that says it was established, in 1941,7 years earlier , while the British were in charge, on village lands. Do you understand what established means? Sko Sko 2014 (talk) 21:38, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Quite. To quote from Khalidi, 1992, p. 108: "A kibbutz named Gat (130115) was established in 1941 on land that traditionally belonged to the village; it took over additional lands in 1949 after the expulsion of the villagers. Six years later, in 1954, Qiryat Gat (128113) was established on village lands; Sde Moshe (131113) was established in 1956 on village land east of the village site."

Please point out where present text is not based on present WP:RS, that is Khalidi? Huldra (talk) 21:45, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What I am saying is that what Khlidi claims is dubious. In 1941, the British were in charge. A Kibbutz couldn't simply take over some other place's lands without their approval. At a minimum, we need to attribute to Khalidi the statement that the village claimed some of the Kibbutz's land were "traditionally" their , whatever that means. Sko Sko 2014 (talk) 23:11, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Find some WP:RS which says that Khalidi´s writing is "dubious". Your opinion (or mine) about it does not matter: that is the way WP works. Though "traditionally belonged to" I take to mean that it was traditionally part of the jurisdiction of Iraq al-Manshiyya. Huldra (talk) 23:21, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Khalidi is being a bit vague here about what happened: "traditionally belonged to" actually means that the land used to belong to the village. In the few years after the 1939 white paper, the JNF focussed its attention on land whose purchase was officially forbidden to it, and often managed to get around the rules with the aid of cooperative Arabs. The book "Between Capital and Land" by Eric Engel Tuten mentions several such cases in the vicinity of Iraq al-Manshiya, without mentioning Gat specifically. The more biased book "The Claim of Dispossession" by Arieh Avneri (p221) says that a wealthy man Abdul Rahman el-Ghazzi purchased packets of land from other Arabs then sold the consolidated tract to the JNF and that Gat was established there. Avneri says that el-Ghazzi helped the JNF circumvent the land-purchase regulations but doesn't say how. (In other cases there were false documents, fictitious middle-men, etc, just like now). Zero^talk 01:00, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, then what is currently in the article needs to reflect the above. The current way it is phrased makes it sound as if Gat was unilaterally (and implicitly, illegally) established on lands that belonged to the village without their consent, rather than on land that at one point belonged to the village, but was sold to the JNF. Sko Sko 2014 (talk) 01:38, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Iraq al-Manshiyya. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090124212115/http://domino.un.org/maps/m0103_1b.gif to http://domino.un.org/maps/m0103_1b.gif

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:34, 14 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]