Talk:Internment of Italian Americans

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On 1 April 2014, it was proposed that this article be moved from Italian-American internment to Internment of Italian Americans. The result of the discussion was moved.

Numbers[edit]

The original stub sentence contained the claim that "hundreds of thousands of citizens of Italian descent" were interned. With all due respect, my research did not substantiate the severity of that claim. I have no axe to grind and tried to write as NPOV and honest an account as I could. The article certainly needs work, especially the lead--and probably elsewhere. I welcome all comments and help. Jeffmatt 07:44, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The claim of "hundreds of thousands of citizens of Italian descent" is absurd, but one of the most important facts regarding this topic is the number of Italian residents interned, broken down according to citizens and noncitizens. At present, the article contains no hint of these numbers. This fact has become even more important to be included in the article as a result of the recent decision by the nationally influential Texas Board of Education to require history textbooks to include a discussion of German and Italian internment as "proof" that racism was not relevant to internment in WW2 (New York Times, 3/14/2010). Aftermath (talk) 17:55, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I found one source listing "about 1600 Italian-Americans were arrested, 250 (all Italian citizens) were interned in military camps for up to two years, another 250 were excluded, that is, ordered to move out of designated military zones, and 600,000 were forced to submit to curfews and other restrictions on their freedom." [[1]] 198.22.236.230 (talk) 20:30, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In 2001 the U.S. Attorney General provided a comprehensive report on the wartime restrictions on those classified as enemy aliens of Italian descent, including the numbers affected. I will add a section that provides these numbers along with a brief overview of report itself. Please forgive and feel free to correct any errors in formatting.Christaltips (talk) 19:33, 26 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Improperly categorized[edit]

JCDenton2052 has improperly categorized this as a "War crime", notwithstanding the fact that it does not match the guidelines for the related topic. Looks like excessive POV-editing, which is not helped by his frequent edits of user pages accusing other editors of vandalism. Tedickey (talk) 18:50, 25 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What does this mean?[edit]

"Defined in terms of national origin, it was the largest community in the United States, having been supplied by a steady flow of immigrants from Italy between the 1880s and 1930."

Americans of German, Irish, and English heritage have always been more numerous than Italian Americans. If this statement is supposed apply to the number of naturalized immigrants from the country of Italy during the 1940s compared to the number of immigrants from other countries living during the 1940s, which very well could be the case, it isn't very clear. --98.114.176.218 (talk) 02:53, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Correction[edit]

Unfortunately, this article repeats the same claim that only "enemy aliens," i.e. non-naturalized or native-born Italian Americans, were rounded up, by pointing to a short New York Times article. Actually, the record shows otherwise, as mentioned in the Congressional report listed. I know I'm just wasting my breath saying this, but if you actually want to write an encyclopedia, there are better resources to use than newspaper articles written on a tight deadline, namely primary sources such as FBI records, and the DOJ investigative report. The person who wrote this line apparently posted a similar line in the German-American internment article, too, with no proof at all. 66.102.16.25 (talk) 23:10, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Valdastri's story is unique--he is the only US Citizen/National of Italian origin known to have been interned by the US government during World War II. It does not belong in the article's lede.

The "Congressional report" 66.102.16.25 cites is a US Department of Justice report to the 106th US Congress (2001). Unlike the New York Times feature story (which most likely wasn't actually "written on a tight deadline", i.e. to coincide with a "news event"), the DOJ report was written under a deadline enshrined in US law (". . . not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this Act shall submit . . ." [P.L.106-451].) The DOJ report is not a "primary source" to anyone that knows what a primary source is. In fact, every instance cited in the DOJ report of wartime restrictions (outside of US territorial waters) on US Citizens of Italian ancestry (including Valdastri's) relies on DiStasi's Una Storia Segreta or unspecified "government documents". (DOJ, pg. 6)

According to the DOJ report, Valdastri was "taken into custody in the initial roundup following the attack on Pearl Harbor and prior to the United States declaration of war against Italy" in the US Territory of Hawaii on 8 December, 1941 (the day after the Axis attack on Hawai'i but prior to the US declaration of war with Italy). Valdastri was one of 74 Italian internees, and the only known US Citizen among them to have been interned (DOJ, Appendix C.1). Only five "Italians" were interned at Camp McCoy (which held Valdastri, according to the DOJ report) as "enemy-alien internees". ([US Army, pg 10]) The 1940 US Census reports over 1.6 million residents born in Italy.

66.102.16.25's edit misrepresents the content of the NYT article it links to, which says (incorrectly as it turns out), ". . . all the interned Italians were citizens of Italy . . ." [emphasis added]. It does not say that this is a common misconception. It's not up to me or any other WP editor to correct a factual error supported by a reliable source in an article while otherwise making constructive edits.* The cited NYT article (dated 11 August, 1997) might conflict with a 2001 US government report or a book published in 2001 (cited in that report) for reasons that should be obvious. I'm reverting this article to a version before 66.102.16.25's edit. Someone else can reconcile it with the apparent facts. Why should I "waste my breath"?

* If you're trying to make a point, 66.102.16.25, by editing a WP article, you are wasting your breath (and keystrokes). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.108.184.217 (talk) 02:34, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Clear statement of numbers[edit]

There should be a clear statement of the numbers (Italian US citizens and foreign citizens) provided in the article. Both articles for the German and Japanese articles make these numbers clear. I would also suggest that such statements should be found in the lede as the numbers are probably fairly high on what people are interested in when they come to each of these articles. Would it also make sense to have the numbers in the infobox (we have then when, but not the how many). — al-Shimoni (talk) 13:11, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:German-American internment which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 20:59, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Obvious american POV[edit]

Docile words in the article when discussing extermination camps in which thousands of italians, germans and japaneses dissappeared during World War 2. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.178.44.111 (talk) 02:40, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]