Talk:Howie Weinberg

Collecting references

There are some references to Howie Weinberg apart from the innumerable album sleeves and Masterdisk's website. Here are a few:

• An interview at redbullmusicacademy.com - giving lots of biographical information
• A blog entry crediting him with singlehandedly killing modern music :-)
• A video from remixmag.com
• A bio connected to his appearance on a panel at SXSW'09

That's just the top of the crop. Searching for "legendary Howie Weinberg" gives > 1000 hits too.

According to this search at mixfoundation.org, he won their award, the 'Technical Excellence and Creativity Award', in 1997, 2003 and 2006.

Yep, I think he's notable. Even though I'm totally unfamiliar with his work. --Alvestrand (talk) 15:36, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Leaving Masterdisk

All links to Howie Weinberg bio or other info at Masterdisk are inoperable as of 2/10/2011. Cannot find any other links to any current employer, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.30.255.243 (talk) 02:44, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

This is a link to a news article on HW's separation from Masterdisk, if anyone more wiki savvy would like to format this info: http://www.sonicscoop.com/2011/01/08/bidding-farewell-to-howie-weinberg-masterdisk-promotes-matt-agoglia-to-senior-mastering-engineer/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.30.255.243 (talk) 02:47, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Done, thanks for the reference! --Alvestrand (talk) 12:10, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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German jewish descent

Weinberg is not a german but a jewish german name — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:908:191:5FA0:8C68:6D2C:2593:1A7E (talk) 12:28, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

Grammy Awards?

These Grammy Award mentions are entirely dubious and misleading. There is no Grammy Award for mastering. There is a Grammy Award for Best Engineered Recording (classical and non-classical), but so far as I've been able to determine, Weinberg has never won it. (List of nominees and winners here].) Similarly with the Mercury Prize, which is awarded for Best Album not Best Mastering. The most I feel we can say is that he worked on Grammy Award-winning albums, but that these albums did not win anything for his field of work. I find there's very little point to listing them all. I'm going to remove the section. – Reidgreg (talk) 15:54, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

You are very incorrect.

Please see source https://www.grammy.com/sites/com/files/engineer_definitions_final_03_01_2019.pdf

States engineers DO RECIEVE Grammys for albums they have worked on that win.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Naebwe (talk • contribs) 14:27, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

@Naebwe: Thanks very much for the link! That seems like a really weird situation, where an engineer could lose for Best Engineered Album (which is specific to the engineer's contribution) but still be considered a winner for Album of the Year. It's like saying that they aren't close to being the best engineer but they happened to get on a project with people who have actual talent so we'll give them an award by association with the actual talent. Still, if that's how the Grammy people do it, that's their business. Moving forward, do you have any reliable secondary sources (ie: not interviews, his own website or WP:ALLMUSIC) which say he won a Grammy? We have to be cautious about combining sources (WP:SYNTH), ie: one source says he worked on an album and another source says that album won a Grammy, then making the inference that he won a Grammy for that album. – Reidgreg (talk) 20:08, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

AllMusic is a reliable database of album credits in the music industry.

The Grammy's have all past wins listed online. For example

When I added work to wiki- I cited each award with proof.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Naebwe (talk • contribs) 13:28, 2 June 2021‎

@Naebwe: Excellent! Since the Grammys list all past wins, could you link to where they list Howie Weinberg's wins? (P.S.: please sign your talk page posts with four tildes ~~~~) – Reidgreg (talk) 19:21, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

I did for example: He also was Grammy nominated for UB40's album Who You Fighting For? that same year. It was nominated for Best Reggae Album.[49][14][4]

References

Career credits

@Naebwe: The source used for his career credits is ALLMUSIC. In that source, in the table, just right of "Credits", it says (1-2,258 of 2,258). There's no second page. When I search for "master" in my browser, it finds that 2226 times on the page. There are a couple outliers like albums Roadmaster and Master of Puppets, but that's about right. So round down a bit and "over 2,200 mastering credits", as in my edit. How do you arrive at your figure of 19,000? That seems exceedingly high, even across a 42-year career. – Reidgreg (talk) 20:28, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

@Reidgreg thanks, I will change it to 2,258 because 16 thousand are pending. Note pending https://www.discogs.com/artist/254262-Howie-Weinberg signed@Naebwe.

Also, @Reidgreg- When you added, "As of 2021, Weinberg has not won a Grammy Award for engineering.[59]", I just wanted to let you know when the Grammy's use this category, they are acknowledging Mixing/Production/Recording engineers, and not Mastering engineers.

It's like comparing apples to oranges.

https://www.sageaudio.com/blog/mastering/what-is-the-difference-between-mixing-and-mastering.php

So, its presence in the artice is not revelant. How can we fix this? Thanks

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Naebwe (talk • contribs) 13:28, 2 June 2021 (UTC)‎

@Naebwe: I think you're starting to convince me on this. My main hangup was that it was repetitive and could probably be summarized a bit. What would you think about having some of his more notable works in the prose (e.g.: Licensed to Ill and Nevermind for sure, and maybe some others), and then follow with a complete awards table, cited, with a footnote explaining how the mastering engineer is high up the production hierarchy and is included for Best Album, etc. Material in articles is supposed to be readily verifiable by a non-expert (like me) but although you need a couple sources and the Grammy rules to verify it, I can see some editors saying it's reasonable enough without calling it WP:SYNTH or WP:OR. Would you mind if I asked for a quick third opinion on this, just to see if an uninvolved editor thinks it is reasonable? – Reidgreg (talk) 20:40, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Naebwe (talk • contribs) 16:36, 7 June 2021 (UTC) 

@Reidgreg I don't feel that's necessary since nothing is implied. It is a fact Weinberg is credited for Mastering. It is a fact that albums were Grammy nominated/and or won.

Per your request I have added:

Other Awards Information:

As of 2021, Weinberg has not won a Grammy statuette. [60]Mastering engineers are not eligible for a GRAMMY statuette except in the categories of Best Historical Album, Best Immersive Audio Album, Best Engineered Album Classical, Best Engineered Album Non- Classical, Record of the Year and Album of The Year. (Mastering Engineers are eligible to receive a Winner’s Certificate for all winning albums.).[61]

It is also worth stressing, Weinberg will never be nominated as "Best Engineered" in any of those catagories because those Engineers (candidates/nominees) are Recording engineers and not Mastering engineers.

However, the Recording engineers that recorded Sheryl Crow’s, C’mom C’mon that Weinberg mastered, Jack Joseph Puig, Trina Shoemaker, Eric Tew & Andy Wallace,(Sheryl Crow) in 2002, were Grammy nominated in one of those cateorgories,Best Engineered Recording, Non Classical, had they won for Best Enigineered Recording, Non Classical, Weinberg would have received a Grammy statuette in place of a Grammy Winner's Certificate for mastering. They did not win, so instead, he earned the Grammy Nomination.[62]

Which I still feel is irrelevant. I also feel you are 100% right about having the Wins and Nominations in a table, I will create one when I have time. Thanks you. @Naebwe

Clean up of table and removal of unreliably sourced information

I have cleaned up this article to make it easier to read and removed all unreliably sourced information from Discogs. In the table I removed the unruly list of nominations which result in no award and they should not be re-added otherwise that table becomes over bearing and makes it harder for a reader to read. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 12:51, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for using the talk page. You deleted Weinberg's nominations. However, it is customary to include nominations for people in music. For example: Bob Ludwig, Emily Lazar, Vlado Meller, Max Martin. So, I will restore the Grammy wins and Nominations table: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Howie_Weinberg&diff=prev&oldid=1064169979

You stated you removed unreliably sourced information from Discogs. There were no Discogs sources in the table. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Howie_Weinberg&diff=prev&oldid=1064169979

You also removed artists that Weinberg has worked with. For example:https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Howie_Weinberg&diff=prev&oldid=1064169979 when it is customary to include that information for people is music. For example: Bob Ludwig, Emily Lazar, Vlado Meller, Max Martin. So, I will restore the people who he has worked with.

You accused me of being "close to the source" with a tag when I am audio engineer impressed with the body of work. Please remove the tag. I am watching the page because I spent a lot of time contributing and your mass deletion appears to be vandalism. Naebwe (talk) 15:12, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Please do not edit the content until such time as consensus is achieved. The entire section of who he works with in referenced to Discogs, which is an unreliable source. Your claim of vandalism is plainly false as every edit has been justified and within the normal editing practices. If you wish to make the table include the nominations please ensure to only include the ones he would have been considered a nominee by the Grammy selection committee,

“ Which is limited to Album of the Year (if they have worked on at least 33% of the playing time of the album), Record of the Year; Best Dance Recording, Best Immersive Audio Recording, Best Historical Album, Best Engineered Album Non-Classical and Best Engineered Album Classical. - Recording Academy, Producers & Engineering Wing ”

My goal here is not to diminish his work, but clean up the article to make it reader friendly and keep it to the most pertinent information. The table was a horrid mess and listed nominations he wasn't considered a nominee by the Grammy selection committee. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 16:36, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Yes, absolutely.

And, I know that because I’m the person that provided you with the document from the Recording Academy that you just quoted back to me.

I sent it to you on your talk page after you tagged the page saying warning some of these awards may not be real.

And, what I was trying to explain to you- is that if Weinberg is credited mastering an album, that means he’s mastered all 10 to 15 songs which puts him at 100% of playing time, which exceeds the Recording Academy’s 33% threshold. And, I explained that to you and you still deleted all of the nominations because you said it was "too much to read".

So, that’s why I thought it was vandalism. Because you were just deleting information and tagging it as incorrect. And, none of those sources were discogs.

I can update bands he’s worked with sources non discogs sources at some point, I don't want to make this my life's work. But, I did take the time time to contribute and it does not feel friendly to have someone just delete it all.

And, what is your issue with my table? Why do you feel it was a “hot mess“?

The table is a template generated by the wiki that looks like every other table on artist sites. And, unlike a lot of them, mine were properly sourced and cited. But, if you feel like I’m doing it incorrectly, please let me know, don’t just delete my edits.

You you also remove the information that the Nirvana record was placed on the Rolling Stones Top 100 Greatest Songs of all time and in the number 6 position stating, “it’s not like he’s in the band”. But, the information is pertinent because Weinberg mastered the record. It's very pertinent.

I'm an audio engineer, it's the whole team made that possible. Not, just a band. Ever person who worked on that record made it happen. Without the work done by engineers, it would have never happened.

One more thing, you also tagged the page saying that it was reading like an advertisement. And, I told you on your talk page I was only stating facts (that were properly sourced). Which is absolutely true. I think if I remove the bullet points it may read better. I just feel like you deleting all of my edits is not the answer. But, do whatever you want. I'm done with this nonsense. Thanks Naebwe (talk) 01:08, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

This is the way Wikiepdia works, it may be best you step away for a bit, if this is aggravating you. You seem to be trying to take ownership of this article and that is not how Wikipedia works. The table was a hot mess because you had decided to include every nomination anything he may have worked with received. He is not considered a nominee for each of those works therefore it is better to remove incorrect information then keep incorrect information in the article. Just like in the other articles about mastering engineers they are only considered nominees if it is an album of the year category. I told you this three times and you continued trying to explain certificates mean the same thing, according to the document provided, this is false. Certificates are only issued if other qualifying pieces win in their respective categories and the engineers which worked on these pieces are not considered nominees. The advert tag was not added by me, I re-added it after you removed it without trying to address any of the issue raised. As for the Nirvana thing the only thing I removed to have to do with Nirvana besides the other stuff was a reference once again to Discogs. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 01:51, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

1.You deleted my Grammy table what was sited and sourced. Why? You stated that you “suspected” the awards “might” not be his? When they clearly were. And, not only that, they were sited and sourced as proof.

2.I provided you with a document explaining Grammy rules. I explained if he’s credited with mastering an album is well over Grammy rules.

3.You responded by saying” you told me three times a statue is the same as certificate.” And, I will say it a fourth, out of 86 categories, and the exception being statues in the categories you quoted back to me, it’s obvious that for mastering engineers, certificates are the norm. And, statues are the exception. But aside from all of that, in the music industry, a Grammy nomination is a Grammy nomination, and a Grammy win is a Grammy win. Everyone in the music industry knows this. I honestly, don’t know what you’re on about. Naebwe (talk) 07:04, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

4. Did you even check the sources before you deleted it? Because, clearly, it was properly cited and sourced. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Howie_Weinberg&diff=prev&oldid=1064169979 Naebwe (talk) 07:14, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

5. Would you like me to contact the Grammys and break it down into certificates received?

It's public knowledge. What solution do you recommend? Naebwe (talk) 07:22, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

6. I'm not taking ownership of the page. I'm taking ownership of my edits.

Are you taking ownership of the page? Naebwe (talk) 08:24, 30 May 2022 (UTC) You are quite obviously Howie Weinberg himself or someone associated with him. You aren't allowed to edit your own page, see WP:COI ---FMSky (talk) 10:04, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

I am not Howie Weinberg. I told you, I'm audio engineer who was studying his discography. If I was Howie Weinberg, it wouldn't have taken me so long to research the work. I would have known the work and entered it all in the same day. Researching his work took me months. Only to have it all deleted by you. Can offer a solution? Thanka! Naebwe (talk) 15:41, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

You mean you've been studying his discography for the last 2 and a half years? Cause that's when you made your first post here, and you've never edited on any other page. FMSky (talk) 15:47, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

I told you. I began the edits studying his work as a hobby. I am aware of deletions because Wiki sends notifications. So, I was alerted to your deletions. I haven't edited other pages because I'm not interested in other pages. This is the work I was studying. Is there a Wiki rule that states edits can only be done by people who edit multiple pages? And again, all i'm hearing from you is accusations without providing reasoning for your deletions of the Grammy table.

Is it the policy of Wiki to delete proofed edits with unfounded accusations? Naebwe (talk) 16:57, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

I just restored the grammy table that you deleted and you deleted it a second time. why? Naebwe (talk) 23:29, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

I can see you are back to push your agenda, I will state this one more time, If the organization handing out awards does not consider him a nominee, neither should Wikipedia. He is only considered a nominee in the album of the year categories. Anything else is a violation of WP:OR. So feel free to add the album of the year nominations to the table but no other nomination should be listed or included. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 23:33, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

I am not pushing an agenda. Please BE SPECIFIC!! what nomination is NOT his! Naebwe (talk) 00:05, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

this statement from you is FALSE!! = 'He is only considered a nominee in the album of the year categories". That is absolutely false. You can't just delete things that you don't understand. Naebwe (talk) 00:20, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Please explain to me WHY you think that is so. So, that I can understand the logic. Thanks! Naebwe (talk) 00:21, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

You're the one pushing the agenda! You're deleting stuff you don't understand. You obviously don't understand because that is entirely FALSE!!!!! Naebwe (talk) 00:23, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

For example!

An article on mastering engineers that re Grammy nominated.

https://www.mixonline.com/the-wire/mastering-engineer-michael-romanowski-nominated-for-three-grammy-awards

Grammy nominated!!! And- NOT in the category of your false claim. (He is only considered a nominee in the album of the year categories.)))

How is that possible???

Oh, because you're wrong! Naebwe (talk) 00:32, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

This appears to be vandalism. Looking back on the notes, there is not an ounce of; to fix, to mend, to rebuild or repair coming from your end!

All you do exert yourself by deleting my correct and time consuming edits.

And your deletions are unwarranted. If anyone needs their access revoked it's you!!!

What gives you the right? Naebwe (talk) 00:53, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

You stated you deleted it because the issue was unresolved.

OK. Let's resolve it! Right now! Let's go! Naebwe (talk) 01:00, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

I have re-worked the table to include the officially recognized nominations. Nominations in any other category is not recognized by the Academy as stated in the documentation provided. This would also put this into alignment with other articles on mastering engineers. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 01:41, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

okay! great! let's go step by step. why did you omit Prince? Naebwe (talk) 03:22, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

1989 Batman nominated for:

Best Pop Vocal Performance, Male

Best R&B Vocal Performance, Male

Best Song Written for a Motion Picture, Television or Other Visual Media

Of The Year (Non-Classical) Naebwe (talk) 03:31, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

None of the nominations were for Albums of the year, therefore he isn't considered a nominee as per the Academy. I am not going to continue to defend the document you provided to establish the acceptance of nominations and awards. I have told you the criteria that has been used in other articles and that is officially recognized by the Academy itself. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 03:39, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

then why would he receive acknowledgement from the Grammy academy? all I did was look up the Grammy certificate. Hummmm, maybe you'er wrong. Naebwe (talk) 03:49, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

yeah i just googled it

https://www.howieweinbergmastering.com/grammy-awards-certifications/ Naebwe (talk) 03:53, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Shall we add it in? Naebwe (talk) 03:55, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

and why would Bob Ludwig be grammy nominated in the category of 'Surround Sound? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Ludwig Naebwe (talk) 04:03, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

as well as on IMBD https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0524981/awards Naebwe (talk) 04:05, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

hummm, maybe you're wrong, I'm just saying... Naebwe (talk) 04:05, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

(but keep deleting stuff) #sarcasm Naebwe (talk) 04:07, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Who's exerting their power now? Isn't that what you accused me of? Naebwe (talk) 04:14, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

If you aren't going to participate in a civil manner, I am not interested in continuing this discussion. You can ask for a 3rd opinion. I have stated my position and you have done nothing to counter the regulations of the Academy and have only provided sarcasm, hostility, and poor references (Primary/IMDB). Have a good night. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 04:11, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Oh no! You just took the easy way out after deleting all of my hard work. really?

Look at how you respond to me in the past.

Were you civil? What's the matter? You can't take what you DISHED OUT?

yeah! maybe just wrong!!

No, you don't get to delete all of my hard working edits are run!

We'er gonna settle this!

And, restore the table that you deleted without cause--- TOGETHER!!!

Let's go! You keep deleting stuff SAYING IT'S WRONG. SO, LET'S FIX IT!!!!! Naebwe (talk) 04:21, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Why did you delete Prince??

I really want to know. Naebwe (talk) 04:22, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

sorry for the typo: yeah! maybe You're just wrong!!

And, saying IMDB is a poor source and not bringing up the wiki article is very a poor excuse. Naebwe (talk) 04:26, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

And, clearly Bobs nominations are out of line with you false claim that mastering engineers are only considered Grammy nominees if ="He is only considered a nominee in the album of the year categories".

That is your false statement and your reason you deleted my edits.

My Grammy table. You said above it was a "hot mess".

You deleted all of it.

Let's stay focused. And, you were and are wrong.

So, please restore my table. It is you that "pushing your agenda" on my edits with nonsense.

Please see above what you have stated. Your nonsense arguments for unwarranted mass deletions of my edits.

This is vandalism!

Absolutely! Naebwe (talk) 04:40, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

and let me remind you- You still can't explain why you omitted Prince!

Real adult... Naebwe (talk) 04:55, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

and I'm the one you said, " I can see you are back to push your agenda".

Okay!!!

1. eyeroll
2. civil Naebwe (talk) 05:02, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

In fact, no one here here has explained anything or reasons for their deletions.

They've just deleted stuff and moved on!!!! Awesome! Naebwe (talk) 05:13, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello, I understand how you are getting this wrong. You are thinking statue. The document states,

"All persons credited on a GRAMMY-winning recording are eligible to be acknowledged with GRAMMY certificates, but only those credited as producer, engineer, (and mastering engineer as well in the categories of Album of the Year, Best Historical Album, Best Surround Sound Album and Best Classical Album) are eligible to receive GRAMMY statues."

The PDF https://www2.grammy.com/PDFs/Recording_Academy/Producers_And_Engineers/Engineer_Definitions.pdf

That paragraph has nothing to do with nominations or wins. That paragraph is stating when they are eligible for a statue.

They are still recognized with the nominations and wins with certificates. Read again.

(Because they can't print that many statues, it would cost a fortune. So,they do it that way. I explained that to you on day one. For example, this Elton John album is credited with 11 engineers working on it, https://www.allmusic.com/album/the-muse-in-goddess-we-trust-mw0000668716/credits. There are 83 Grammy categories, that would be approx printing 83 X 11 statues just for the engineers, not inculding all the others who are credited. It would be impossible to do that for every category. So, to make it more manageable, they limit statues to the the definition above " Album of the Year, Best Historical Album, Best Surround Sound Album and Best Classical Album" for mastering engineers. But, they are talking statues.)

You're thinking statues, and not taking into consideration certificates.

Again, the document states: "All persons credited on a GRAMMY-winning recording are eligible to be acknowledged with GRAMMY certificates."

I will get a 3rd person. Thanks @Naebwe Naebwe (talk) 04:19, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

@Donald Albury Hi Don, I was wondering if could give us a third opinion here. CC'ing @Mcmatter Thanks! @Naebwe Naebwe (talk) 13:07, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Being acknowledged is not the same as being considered a nominee or award winner. I have acknowledge that any person credited on a nominated piece will receive a participation certificate this does not make them a nominee or winner. The document at https://naras.a.bigcontent.io/v1/static/engineer_definitions_final_to_awards_03_01_2019, is quite clear on this in the first few paragraphs, they are only considered nominees and winners in a selected group of categories. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 13:30, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Can you please show me what you mean? What is the specific statement are you referring to? Thanks! Naebwe (talk) 13:54, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

The first paragraph is the same in every document.

This one states:

"This document defines GRAMMY Award eligible credits for the title of ENGINEER. All engineers (and others) eligibly credited on a GRAMMY-winning recording will be acknowledged with GRAMMY certificates."

Again, an award is a statute. A certificate is certificate. They are not discussing nominations or wins here. If you are specific, I can better understand. Thanks! Naebwe (talk) 14:09, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

The first paragraph states they are only considered Grammy recipients (AKA winners) per the rules of each category. This is further expanded on in the 4th paragraph for mastering engineers specifically. The second paragraph however explicitly states they are not considered nominees for these categories. Later in the document it does go on to expand that for mastering engineers they will receive winner certificates which I can agree may be an elevated recognition and have included those on the current table. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 14:16, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

1. "GRAMMY Award eligible credits..." = statue, award is statue.

2. "All engineers (and others) eligibly credited on a GRAMMY-winning recording will be acknowledged with GRAMMY certificates." = Winner and if you won, you were before that nominated. So, you also got the nomination.

3. I see what you mean, here.

"Per the rules of the genre album categories (Best Country Album, Best Reggae Album, etc.) eligibly credited engineers who have worked on 51% or more of the playing time of winning albums receive GRAMMY statuettes. These engineers are not Nominees and are compiled and audited after the telecast."

I understood this to be, "they are not Nominees" as in, they are not Nominees in the category of "Best Engineer". So I will double check, Thanks Naebwe (talk) 15:44, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

According to Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award_for_Best_Rock_Album

The award for Best Rock Album was first presented to the band the Rolling Stones in 1995, and the name of the category has remained unchanged since then. According to the category description guide for the 52nd Grammy Awards, the award is presented to "vocal or instrumental rock, hard rock or metal albums containing at least 51% playing time of newly recorded material".

The award goes to the artist, producer and engineer/mixer, provided they were responsible for more than 50 percent of playing time on the album. Producers and/or engineers/mixers who are responsible for less than 50 percent, as well as the mastering engineer, can apply for a Winners Certificate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award_for_Best_Rock_Album

If they can win, they are nominated before that. So, they would get the nomination.

I believe that statement means what I think it means. They are not Nominees in the only category engineers have, which is, Best Engineer. Naebwe (talk) 16:23, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Because it doesn't make common logical sense that they can win- and not accept the nominated that precededs that.

How does one accept a win, without first accepting the nomination.

I'm curious about this. So, I'm going to find out. Thanks Naebwe (talk) 16:50, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

@Mcmatter That language is not stated on the 2008 GRAMMY RULES PDF. So, I believe I'm correct. Will get a third person and will keep digging.

https://www2.grammy.com/PDFs/Recording_Academy/Producers_And_Engineers/Engineer_Definitions.pdf Naebwe (talk) 17:44, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

And forgive me for becoming frustrated in the past. But, it's frustrating when you is you make a deletion strong claim without backing it up with text or reason. If you give a specifics, we can talk. Thanks! Naebwe (talk) 14:19, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

@Naebwe: I am not familiar with the workings of Grammy awards, and I do not edit in this area, so I will decline giving an opinion here. - Donald Albury 13:51, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Okay no worries! I will reach out to someone else. Thank you! Naebwe (talk) 13:55, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for trying to help Donald, I will make a post at the Wikiproject to see if someone there can add anything to this conversation. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 13:59, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

thanks @Mcmatter Naebwe (talk) 14:12, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm getting a 3 person. Edits are supposed to be constructive. Below are my edits you deleted. Naebwe (talk) 04:17, 7 July 2022

===Grammy Awards ===

Grammy Awards

Year	Artist	Album	Grammy Nominations Category
1983	Herbie Hancock	Future Shock	Best R&B Instrumental Performance Best Jazz Instrumental Performance	Won Nominated
1983	Bill Laswell	Future Shock	Best Instrumental Composition	Nominated
1984	Stewart Copeland	Rumble Fish	Best Arrangement on an Instrumental	Nominated
1984	Herbie Hancock	Sound-System	Best R&B Instrumental Performance	Won
1985	Yngwie Malmsteen	Rising Force	Best Rock Instrumental Performance (Orchestra, Group Or Soloist)	Nominated
1988	Jethro Tull	Crest of a Knave	Best Hard Rock/Metal Performance	Won
1988	Iggy Pop	Instinct	Grammy Award for Best Hard Rock/Metal Performance Vocal or Instrumental	Nominated
1989	Prince	Batman	Best Pop Vocal Performance, Male Best R&B Vocal Performance, Male Best Song Written for a Motion Picture, Television or Other Visual Media Of The Year (Non-Classical)	Nominated Nominated Nominated Nominated
1990	Public Enemy	Fear of a Black Planet	Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group	Nominated
1990	Joe Cocker	Joe Cocker Live	Best Rock Vocal Performance - Male	Nominated
1991	LL Cool J	Mama Said Knock You Out	Best Rap Solo Performance	Won
1991	Soundgarden	Badmotorfinger	Best Metal Performance	Nominated
1991	Mariah Carey	Emotions	Best Pop Female Performance Producer of the Year Non Classical	Nominated Nominated
1991	Nirvana	Nevermind	Best Alternative Music Album	Nominated
1992	Nirvana	Nevermind	Best Hard Rock/Metal Performance Best Rock Song	Nominated Nominated
1992	Arrested Development	3 Years, 5 Months and 2 Days in the Life Of...	Best New Artist Best Rap Performance Duo or Group Best R&B Performance by a Duo or Group with Vocal single People Everyday	Won Won Nominated
1993	LL Cool J	14 Shots to the Dome	Best Rap Solo Performance	Nominated
1995	Red Hot Chili Peppers	Blood Sugar Sex Magik	Best Hard Rock Performance.	Nominated
1996	Smashing Pumpkins	Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness	Record of the Year Best Hard Rock Performance Album of the Year Best Pop Instrumental Performance Best Rock Performance by a Duo or Group with Vocal Best Alternative Music Performance Best Music Video, Short Form	Nominated Won Nominated Nominated Nominated Nominated Nominated
1996	Garbage	Stupid Girl	Best New Artist Best Rock Performance by a Duo or Group with Vocal Best Rock Song.	Nominated Nominated Nominated
1997	Smashing Pumpkins	The End Is the Beginning Is the End	Best Hard Rock Performance	Won
1997	U2	Pop	Best Rock Album	Won
1998	Smashing Pumpkins	Adore	Best Alternative Music Performance.	Nominated
1998	Garbage	Version 2.0	Album of the Year Best Rock Album	Nominated Nominated
1998	Beastie Boys	Intergalactic	Best Alternative Music Performance Best Rap Performance.	Won Won
2000	Madonna	Music	Record of the Year Best Female Pop Vocal Performance Best Pop Vocal Album	Nominated Nominated Nominated
2001	PJ Harvey	Stories from the City, Stories from the Sea	Best Female Rock Vocal Performance Best Rock Album.	Nominated Nominated
2002	Elvis Costello	When I Was Cruel	Best Male Rock Vocal Performance Best Rock Album Best Alternative Music Album	Nominated Nominated Nominated
2003	Sheryl Crow	C'mon, C'mon	Best Female Rock Vocal Performance Best Pop Collaboration with Vocals Best Rock Album Best Country Collaboration Best Country Collaboration with Vocals Grammy Award for Best Engineered Album, Non-Classical	Won Nominated Nominated Nominated Nominated Nominated
2006	Gustavo Cerati	Ahí vamos	Best Rock Solo Vocal Album -Latin Grammy Best Rock Song-Latin Grammy	Won Won
2006	Yeah Yeah Yeahs	Show Your Bones	Best Alternative Music Album.	Nominated
2006	UB40	Who You Fighting For?	Best Reggae Album	Nominated
2006	The Killers	Sam's Club	Best Short Form Music Video	Nominated
2008	Daft Punk	Alive 2007	Best Electronic/Dance Album	Won
2013	Fiona Apple	The Idler Wheel...,	Best Alternative Music Album.	Nominated
2016	Twenty One Pilots	Vessel	Best Pop Duo/Group Performance Record of the Year Best Rock Performance	Won Nominated Nominated
2019	Mon Laferte	Norma	Best Alternative Music Album. -Latin Grammy	Won
2020	Gary Clark Jr.	This Land	Best Contemporary Blues Album Best Rock Performance Best Rock Song Best Music Video	Won Won Won Nominated
2022	Deftones	Ohms	Best Rock Performance Best Metal Performance Best Remixed Recording, Non-Classical	Nominated Nominated Won

And this! He also mastered Sinéad O'Connor - I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got , Cheap Trick - Lap of Luxury , James Brown -In the Jungle Groove

, Def Leppard - Hysteria, Limp Bizkit - Three Dollar Bill, Y'all, Björk - Vespertine , Nile Rodgers - Dance, Dance, Dance: The Best of Chic , Run-DMC - Tougher Than Leather. Ramones - Brain Drain , Santana - Viva Santana!, Diane Warre ZZ Top - La Grange, The Clash - Cut the Crap, Pantera , Kesha- Children of the Revolution , Pixies - Bossanova , UB40, The Power Station - The Power Station (album) , The Fray - Through the Years: The Best of the Fray, Soul Asylum - Let Your Dim Light Shine , Joe Walsh- Analog Man , Joe Cocker - Joe Cocker Classics , Violent Femmes , 3 Doors Down - Seventeen Days, Jeff Buckley - The Grace EPs, The The - NakedSelf, Joe Satriani - Engines of Creation , Beastie Boys - The Negotiation Limerick File, ,Sneaker Pimps - Splinter , Phish , Creed - My Own Prison, Soundgarden - A-Sides , Garbage- Stupid Girl , Hüsker Dü - The Living End, Sonic Youth - Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star, The The - Solitude, Blues Traveler- Save His Soul , Bad Brains- Rise , Run-DMC - Down with the King , Bill Laswell - Deconstruction: The Celluloid Recordings , Santana - Viva Santana! , The Clash- The Story of the Clash, Volume 1 , Scorpions - Savage Amusement, Debbie Gibson - Out of the Blue , Eddie Money - Can't Hold Back , Sammy Hagar - VOA , Joe Satriani - The Complete Studio Recordings , Soundgarden -The Classic Album Selection , The Mars Volta - The Bedlam in Goliath, Stewart Copeland - The Stewart Copeland Anthology, Muse - Starlight, The Strokes - Juicebox, Thirty Seconds to Mars - Love, Lust, Faith and Dreams , Billy Corgan -TheFutureEmbrace , Electric Light Orchestra - Mr. Blue Sky: The Very Best of Electric Light Orchestra , Iron Maiden - Death on the Road , Blues Traveler - Live from the Fall , New Kids on the Block - Face the Music , Miley Cyrus , Grimes- Cyberpunk 2077 , Phil Keaggy - Find Me in These Fields , Aerosmith - Done with Mirrors , Paul Weller - Sonik Kicks , Xzibit - Napalm and Korn - Untouchables.

References