Talk:History of Taoism

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Article creation[edit]

Split from Taoism due to article length. Subject and structure leaves plenty of room for expansion and revision as a separate article. Vassyana 08:10, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why does this article mix Pinyin and Wade-Giles? 209.60.87.185 (talk) 17:38, 15 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Han Dynasty Section wrong[edit]

Emperor Xian of Han does not correspond to the Early Han, but rather, the Later Han. In the Early Han, Emperor Wen of Han and Emperor Jing of Han followed Huang-Lao Taoism because Wen's wife, Empress Dou, was a Daoist. Texts corresponding to the early Han Huang-Lao Daoism incude Laozi's De Dao Jing (the version coming from the Mawangdui manuscripts dating from around 168 BCE), the Huangdi Sijing, the Huainanzi, and specific portions of the Wenzi (as evidenced from the Dingzhou findings, buried in 55 BCE).

Huang-Lao is distinct enough to merit its own section, but it should not be conflated with the quest for immortality which came after Zhang Daoling. The quest for immortality was a folk religion artifact, and as such, formed a defining part of distinctly non-daoist reign of Shihuangdi, who succumbed to mercury poisoning in his quest.

ShaziDaoren (talk) 07:20, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mischaracterization of Jonathan Herman's reception of Le Guin's Daodejing[edit]

The linked (mostly positive) review by Dr. Herman of Le Guin's Daodejing suggests that the language in this article is unrepresentative of the beliefs attributed to him in this article regarding Le Guin. I'm going to edit unless someone promptly demonstrates a reason not to.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63106378/HermanreLeGuin.pdf

--JesseBHolmes (talk) 02:45, 5 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Edits completed. Please reach out to me if there are any concerns. I've also reached out to the author of the original language.

--JesseBHolmes (talk) 03:02, 5 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to JesseBHolmes for the recent changes, and for thoughtfully informing me in advance. This summary is copied from my Talk page:

  1. Removed a dead link on Komjathy's website.
  2. Quoted Dr. Herman's actual review of Le Guin's Daodejing; by the way, are you aware that Le Guin was a contributor to the volume in which you claim Herman bashes her?
  3. Removed the Komjathy quote suggesting that Western 'Taoists' should pronounce it with a hard 't' to reflect their cultural illiteracy; such a jab adds nothing to the article.
  4. Attributed sweeping claims about "popular western Taoists" as cultural appropriators to Komjathy, instead of stating them as truth and linking to his website as support.

In response,

  1. Thanks for correcting the link, my mistake.
  2. Yes, I read that book when it came out, and fully agree with her (p. 412) Epilogue's criticism of NWT "cheapening and trivializing Daoism". Herman (p. 392) quotes Kirkland's "Teaching Taoism in the 1990s", which I've added (correcting "mindless fluff" to "popular fluff").
  3. It adds a relevant insight that's an accurate BS detector. Most people who mispronounce "Taoism" as /ˈtaʊ.ɪzəm/ don't know what they're talking about. Reverted, and moved explanation into fn. Does that look better?
  4. Sorry, I thought the link to Komjathy was clear. Your clarification reads better, and I added another page.

Thanks also for the link to Herman's 1998 review of Le Guin, which used "popular western Taoism" 3 years before his 2001 "Daoist Environmentalism in the West". I've rearranged the paragraph accordingly. As you know, WP:CHERRYPICKING is not allowed, so I NPOV-balanced Herman's praise with some of his blame.

On another topic, Western Daoism obviously didn't begin with Maspero, and we should add some content here. Do you have any good refs? After I finish working on a new article, I'll come back and help improve this section. Looking forward to working together in the future. Best wishes, Keahapana (talk) 03:02, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your response and your kind words! A few points.

1. I think it would be fairer to call the Herman review a positive one with a few points of concern, as opposed to a 'mixed review.' Highlighting those points of concern strikes me as fair. I would be happy to draft language to that effect and notify you when I change the article.
2. Komjathy's snide remark suggesting referring to Western Daoists pronouncing with a hard 't' still strikes me as not a substantive enough criticism for inclusion. My preference is to delete the remark. He is not suggesting a detection device for people who don't know what they are talking about; he is suggesting ironically referring to these people by a mispronunciation to mock their perceived illiteracy.

I'm somewhat swamped for the next few days, but would be happy to help expand this section. I'll revise my recent edits and let you know when I'm completed so you can take a look. (edited these comments slightly since original posting) --JesseBHolmes (talk) 03:37, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

---

I have edited re: point 1 in the comment immediately above. I'll hold off on point 2 for further discussion. --JesseBHolmes (talk) 03:46, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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What is "KMT"?[edit]

What is "KMT" referring to in the "People's Republic of China (1949–present)" section, this passage: "Sensitive areas include the relationship of the Zhengyi Taoist community with their denomination's lineage-holder, Celestial Masters who moved to Taiwan with KMT, and various traditional temple activities such as astrology and mediumship, which have been criticized as "superstitious".[49]"


KMT does not appear elsewhere in the article and is not defined. ImEricItsMe (talk) 02:37, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@ImEricItsMe: I clarified KMT, it's Kuomintang. Albert Kendricson (talk) 08:14, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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