Talk:Haughley

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Haughley[edit]

Attempts to create an accurate account of the history of the village of Haughley in England Vanfluff (talk) 11:34, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Unencyclopaedic material to be worked on[edit]

Unencyclopaedic material to be worked on
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

The village has evidence of neolithic, pagan, Iron Age, roman and Saxon settlements[1][full citation needed] and is mentioned in the Doomsday Survey of 1086 as Hagala being held by Hugh de Montfront from the Saxon Lord Guthmund.[2] It was first mentioned in the will of Leofgifu a Saxon noblewoman in 1040.[3]

Haughley Parish Church is an example of an early English medieval Church on the site of a Norman chapel which was in turn established on an area noted for pagan settlement and sacrifice. It is dedicated to the "Assumption of the Virgin Mary" and a Toy fair was held annually in August to celebrate this until the 1870s. It has a South tower c1200 which contains five bells dating back to the medieval period. A flagpole atop the tower was gifted by the Palmer family in 2002 for the Queens Golden Jubilee.

Haughley is famous for its Castle; it is considered to be one of the best preserved Motte & Bailey castles in England with impressive baileys and ditches of up to 80 feet. It was built by Hugh de Montfront following the conquest of 1066 over the previous footprint of the fortified hall of the Saxon Lord Guthmund [4] who was killed at the Battle of Hastings. The site extends to over seven acres and consists of a Keep, Inner Bailey and Outer bailey with a market place to the east; an earlier Saxon market stood within the inner bailey [5] The outer bailey has traces of Neolithic, Iron Age and Roman use [6][full citation needed] and the escarpment and ditch is still clearly visible [7][full citation needed] Initially of wood and then of stone the foundations are over 7 feet thick and circular; it is estimated the height of which would have been around sixty feet. During the restoration and clearance of 2010 by Suffolk County Council and the Archaeological Unit impressive carved stone and other masonry were recovered from the Keep.[8][full citation needed] [9][full citation needed] [10] The Castle was in the gift of the Crown and descended to Henry de Essex before being seized by the Crown again in 1163. By October 1173 it was held for the Crown by Ranulf de Broc. Further to Follow. The Outer Bailey begun to be backfilled from the 1200s onwards [11]

Haughley had at one time three windmills; one at Haughley Green owned by the Andrews family and one at Haughley Mere owned by the Palmer family. Standing at the top of a Station Road, the third and last a post mill, was erected in 1811 with the aid of troops marching to the Napoleontic wars in the Low Countries. In 1937 a trust was formed with the owners, the Palmer family, and a group of enthusiasts to restore it however in 1943 it was burnt to the ground by vandals.[12][unreliable source?]

A large provisions market was formally established in 1231 by charter and fell into disuse in the 16th Century.[13][non-primary source needed][full citation needed] An older Saxon market had stood in a Duke Street. Since 1855 the Market Place however has been the village green. A large common of 120 acres at Haughley Green was enclosed in the 1840s.[14][full citation needed] In 1710 a fire devastated the "town of Hawleigh" and it is said Stowmarket rose from the ashes; a petition to Queen Anne to raise relief was sent across the country.[15][unreliable source?]


Haughley was described in the 1930s by the Daily Mail as the "feverpit of the kingdom". In reference to the open channeled sewers either side of the main street before sanitation was brought to the village. This was part of a legal case with the controversial Vicar of the time Rev Walter Grainge White and the district council. He instigated and allowed himself to be sued in various cases which made case law from the Haughley sanitation case to the Haughley Church Electoral roll case. His forthright and libellous public letters, meetings and spats together with his anti gossip squads "the apostles" brought controversy and violence at times to meetings and confrontations to the extent of refusing to allow the Bishop to access the church, denying flowers to be laid on peoples graves and the removal of people from the church and changing the Lords Prayer. A favourite of Fleet Street, reporters would call regularly from here to their offices with the latest news for print. Despite all this he achieved water, sanitation, electricity, council housing and a bus service for the village.[16][unreliable source?][full citation needed]


Haughley possessed many Inns and Public Houses. Today the Kings Arms Inn is the last remaining at the centre of the village and run by Gordon Lambert. It has been a running since at least 1617. Others in the village but now closed have been... The Fox, The White Horse, The Railway Tavern, The Crown, The Globe, The Angel, The Mulberry Tree, The Hen, The Cock as well as many other beer houses.[17]


Palmers Bakery is one of the oldest and most famous bakeries in the country established c1752 and run by the Palmer Family since 1869. The Palmer family arrived here in Tudor times and the Bakery still uses the ancient brick ovens to bake their bread in the medieval bake house. It is one of few businesses that can trace the commercial use of the site back to the Saxon times of King Edgar.[18][unreliable source?][full citation needed] The Bakehouse sits on the site of two ancient market stalls described within its deeds as "two stalls beneath the marketplace of Hawley". The Milling, Corn and Pig merchants side of the business was closed in the 1980s with the family retaining the farm and property arm of the business in Haughley and in Northern Ireland.[19][failed verification] The Bakery was threatened with closure in 2007 when Haughley Parish Council attempted to stop access and services to the business under a Victorian act of parliament. After a public campaign and meeetings[20][full citation needed] with over 10,000 supporting the business [21][unreliable source?] the Parish Council backed down faced with legal action by the business together with damages[22][23][failed verification]

The Manor of Haughley, now stripped of any of its rights and powers [24][unreliable source?], is correctly called Haughley with its Members. A controversial figure with many villagers[25][full citation needed] [26][unreliable source?] the title was purchased for £300 by Jeffery Bowden in 1977 when he moved here from the east end of London before setting up a Bed & Breakfast business.[27][full citation needed] The manor formerly had the power of "oyer et terminer" and the gallows were neae the site of the current Quarries Cross junction. The Abbot of Hailes in the west country was required to provide a ladder for the gallows prior to the reformation on Lubberlow field - old English for the hill of spirits where the gallows stood.[28] Haughley was a lordship held after the Norman Conquest by Hugh I de Montfort. Later it fell into the king's hand, and in 1187 Henry II granted it to Geoffrey, count of Perche. On his death in 1202, King John granted it to his illegitimate son, Geoffrey, who died in 1205 without heirs. Further to follow

Sources marked as unreliable? These offline sources, how did you determine that they were unreliable ? Zpeopleheart (talk) 12:32, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If there's no evidence given of publication, or author, it is questionable if they are a published, reliable source. Hchc2009 (talk) 12:35, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For example, a family archive. Muffled Pocketed 12:38, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Zpeopleheart, I've reverted back to a safe version; please don't remove tags etc. asking for more details of a source without dealing with the issue. A reference citing "Various open letters, parish magazine,newspaper articles minutes of the Parish Council 1929 to 1955 - Palmer Family Archive & Suffolk Record Office", for example, has obvious problems. Which letters? Which newspapers? etc. I'd advise perhaps working something up in user space first. Hchc2009 (talk) 12:43, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like it's important enough to breach WP:3RR over; although I did say I'd give him an hour to rectify the page. But I admittedly didn't mean just spend an hour removing maintenace templates... Muffled Pocketed 12:50, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

References

  1. ^ Reports of various Archaelogical Surveys - Suffolk County Council
  2. ^ Doomsday Survey 1086
  3. ^ Haughley Past & Present by Rev Nigel MacCullouch and History of Haughley Page 11
  4. ^ Suffolk Archaelogical Service Survey - Haughley School 1999
  5. ^ 1554 Manorial Survey - Palmer Family Archive
  6. ^ Palmer Family Archive & Suffolk Archaelogical Unit
  7. ^ Stanley West - SIA
  8. ^ Suffolk Institute of Archaelogy Proceedings
  9. ^ Suffolk Record Office
  10. ^ History of Haughley Castle by K.W>R>V>Palmer[page needed]
  11. ^ Haughley School Archaelogical Survery 1999
  12. ^ Haughley Windmill Papers - Appeal by Lady Eve Balfour for Restoration funds - Palmer Family Archive
  13. ^ Pipe Rolls of Henry III
  14. ^ Enclosure Map & apportionment 1844
  15. ^ Petition for Relief to Queen Anne 1710 - Palmer Family Archive
  16. ^ Various open letters, parish magazine,newspaper articles minutes of the Parish Council 1929 to 1955 - Palmer Family Archive & Suffolk Record Office
  17. ^ Palmer Family Archive & History of of Haughley Inns & Pubs by Brian Southgate[page needed]
  18. ^ Historical Assesement Leigh Alston BA Cambridge
  19. ^ http://www.palmersbakery.co.uk
  20. ^ East Anglian Daily Times, Bury Free Press, BBC News - Suffolk Record Office
  21. ^ Village Green Dispute Papers 2004 to 2009 Palmer Family Archive
  22. ^ http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/bakers_win_legal_row_with_parish_council_1_549279
  23. ^ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-502669/Bun-fight-beckons-council-bans-baker-driving-delivery-track-used-17th-century.html
  24. ^ Enfrachisement Deeds - Palmer Family Archive and 1925 Property Act
  25. ^ East Anglian Daily Times, BBC & Anglia TV, Minutes of Haugley Parish Council -Suffolk Record Office
  26. ^ Petition of People of Haughley - Palmers Family Archive
  27. ^ Stowmarket Chronicle - 1977 & History of Haughley
  28. ^ Copingers History of the Manors of Suffolk[page needed]

Unreliable sources[edit]

How did the editors determine so many of thes e sources. As unreliable? Most are not on line. Does a library have them? Zpeopleheart (talk) 13:03, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Clean-up[edit]

I have spent a few hours trying to tidy up this article, checking some of the references where they are online, adding a couple of new ones, and generally trying to make it more encyclopaedic and easier to read. Could do with some more pairs of eyes reviewing what's there now. Paul W (talk) 16:41, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Paul W, this is looking much better! I admit I'd prefer every statement (or at least paragraph) sourced, but it's a great improvement. With a little expansion (maybe via the VCH?) this could be a nice little good article, what say you? SerialNumber54129...speculates 08:59, 8 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the message Serial Number 54129. Happy to help with a push towards GA status. I've carried on expanding and citing.... Paul W (talk) 15:04, 8 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Haughley Green[edit]

I suggest that it might be appropriate to merge the Haughley Green stub into the now quite substantial article about Haughley, which includes all the assertions made about Haughley Green. Paul W (talk) 09:14, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support, since even the Haughley Green article admits it is not a distinct settlement, being only "part of the village of Haughley." So a subsection here (level III?) would be appropriate. >SerialNumber54129...speculates 11:01, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - as per Serial Number. Hchc2009 (talk) 11:55, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Having already merged the Haughley Green article content, I have now redirected Haughley Green to Haughley. Paul W (talk) 08:58, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Paul W, job well done. >SerialNumber54129...speculates 12:55, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Palmers[edit]

A new addition is a little confusing:

"William Palmer died in 1915 to be succeeded by his sons William Edwart Gladstone Palmer who died in 1968. His son Roy Palmer died in 1989. Today the business is run by Kenneth Palmer and his son, former lawyer Kieron Palmer."

Is Roy the brother of William Edwart (correct spelling?), or his son (and the grandson of William Palmer)? What relation is Kenneth Palmer to these? Some clarity is needed about the generations, I think. And it also needs to be supported by reliable independent sources. Paul W (talk) 18:40, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Some clarity provided.Paul W (talk) 21:00, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A new addition describes William Palmer as "the Liberal founder and political campaigner for Thomas Paine" (citing Stowmarket Business Family History, page 89) but THE Thomas Paine died in 1809. The Liberal party was founded in 1859 but I can find no mention of Palmer being involved.Paul W (talk) 14:49, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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