Talk:Harold Holcroft

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Move to the SE&CR[edit]

When was this? The article states that Holcroft collaborated with Gresley on conjugated valve gear while Holcroft was still at Swindon, but the GNR's first loco with conjugated (but non-Holcroft) valve gear (the 2-8-0 No. 461) did not appear until 1918, by which time I'm fairly sure (I mean, almost certain) that Holcroft had moved to Ashford. 86.178.185.233 (talk) 23:57, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

1914, possibly. 86.178.185.233 (talk) 01:37, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Holcroft was one of several engineers headhunted by Maunsell after the latter moved to Ashford from Inchicore. C.J. Hicks also came from Inchicore; James Clayton came from Derby (Midland Railway); whilst Holcroft, Lionel Lynes and George Pearson came from Swindon (GWR). J.E. Chacksfield, in his Richard Maunsell: an Engineering Biography (Oakwood Press, 1998) states (p. 51) that Maunsell's team was assembled "during his first year in office", ie between December 1913 and December 1914.

Holcroft didn't actually "collaborate" with Gresley: Holcroft worked out his conjugated valve gear design whilst at Swindon, but although he patented it in 1909, he didn't use it because Churchward wasn't interested in three-cylinder locos. Gresley worked out (and also patented) a more complicated design for a conjugated valve gear independently of Holcroft and used it on the prototype O2, no. 461, in 1918. Once this was in service, much was written about it in the technical press: amongst the comments from other engineers was a paper by Holcroft, who described why his own system was superior. Gresley then produced a new design (which owed much more to Holcroft's than to Gresley's first design), which Gresley first used on GNR Class H4 no. 1000, in 1920. Holcroft finally got to use his own version with SECR N1 class no. 822 in 1923.

Holcroft's design: nine pin joints, two 2-to-1 levers, horizontal, symmetrical about locomotive centre line.

Gresley's first design: eleven pin joints, two rocking shafts, vertical, asymmetric

Gresley's second design: five pin joints, one 2-to-1 lever, horizontal, asymmetric.

Pickersgill, on the Caledonian Railway, also produced a conjugated valve gear design: this had two rocking shafts, two 2-to-1 levers, operated vertically, was symmetric - and had fourteen pin joints. It was used on the CR 956 class 4-6-0 of 1921. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:37, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are detail drawings on pp. 192-3 of O.S. Nock British Locomotives of the 20th Century, volume 1: 1900-1930, pp. 192-3, showing the conjugated valve gear of the GNR H4 (LNER K3) and also the first SECR N1, no. 822. Interestingly, for no. 822, Maunsell & Holcroft used two transverse levers (as per Gresley's arrangement), and not the three of Holcroft's 1909 patent. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:48, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Holcroft's patent GB 190907859 is available on the web- I downloaded a copy a couple of years back, but the text had been OCR'd and is full of typos. Ning-ning (talk) 21:48, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Where on the web? Google comes up empty for that number --Redrose64 (talk) 22:55, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(OD) http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_gb&FT=D&date=19091125&CC=GB&NR=190907859A&KC=A

Apologies- the number of the patent is 7859, hence GB 1909 07859 Ning-ning (talk) 02:18, 13 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes; the levers indicated "e" and "f" are the three transverse levers I referred to at 11:48, 12 November 2010. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:15, 13 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Retirement[edit]

Did Holcroft really write for the Civils, as the article states? He seems much more of a Mechanical type, and certainly did contribute extensively to the Locomotives or the Mechanicals (or even both). (I forget which, in other words).

109.145.107.139 (talk) 04:03, 15 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes indeed. according to his book Locomotive Adventure he worked on a publication called Railway Engineering Abstracts for the Institute of Civil Engineers. 212.159.44.170 (talk) 21:49, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Work other than Locomotives[edit]

The article is very locomotive design centric, which is fair enough, and probably what Holcroft liked most, but both Churchward and Maunsell seem to have quite frequently put him on tasks designing new factories and workshops. It would be good if the article were to reflect that.212.159.44.170 (talk) 22:03, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]