Talk:Gulf Cartel

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many journalist are assasinated by the gulf cartel just this year alone[edit]

just curious if this would be a relevant subject for this article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.255.227.137 (talk) 10:18, 12 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if that would be considered so important; in the article of the Mexican Drug War, under the journalist section, there's the actual count for all journalist killed. But, I remember a specific incident from CDG that actually made world news. I think it was that journalist that was killed in Matamoros during the shooting where 'Tony Tormenta' was killed, too. It is mentioned under the Present Day section here. Hope this helps. ComputerJA (talk) 16:17, 12 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mario Cárdenas Guillén, the other forgotten leader[edit]

Jorge Eduardo Costilla Sánchez (Los Metros) and Mario Cárdenas Guillén (Los Rojos) are the two leaders of the Gulf Cartel. Since Los Rojos are formed primarily by those of the Cárdenas drug family, and since Mario has been pronounced as leader in several publications, [1][2][3][4] do y'all think he should be included in the template as one of the leaders of the organization?

He is also believed to be the leader of Matamoros, Tamaulipas, since the death of Tony Tormenta and the recent capture of El Junior. [5] ComputerJA (talk) 17:03, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

needs a re-write for grammar and spelling. also word choices are a little odd[edit]

this article is pretty good for info but the spelling and grammar are a bit rough. i'll do what i can over the next few days but some sections are confusing. i suspect that the original author was a spanish speaker and has chosen some odd phrases ie a "persecution" refering to groups of gunmen and marines who didn't fight, dunno what they meant, perhaps procession? but this would seem out of context in regards urban warfare between the army and drug cartel soldiers. anyway thanks for posting author/s, keep it up! Teknotiss (forgot to sign in AGAIN!)

You're right. Make sure to make any grammatical corrections if the article needs them. And, yes, I'm a native Spanish speaker. I've been speaking English for only four and a half years, so I tend to mess up here and there. Thanks for stopping by! ComputerJA (talk) 21:29, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Foundation[edit]

Nepomuceno Guerra was born in 1915; he was 5 years old in 1920. He may have J-walked, spat on the streets or crossed booze across the border then, but there was no Gulf Cartel yet. It was founded in the 1970s:

  • Lira Saade, Carmen (Sábado 15 de marzo de 2003). "La historia del cártel del Golfo". La Jornada. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  • "Una historia del Cártel del Golfo". Nuestra Aparente Rendicion. 27 August 2010. Retrieved 2012-03-07.

BatteryIncluded (talk) 05:39, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There's some confusion in this issue, so here's my take on it:
The Gulf Cartel (as a true drug trafficking organization) began in the 1970s, right after it consolidated its ties with the Cali Cartel in Colombia. As a criminal organization (in this case, a bootlegging gang [6] [7] ), it began during the Prohibition, although at a much smaller scale. El Universal mentions that Juan N. Guerra—along with his brothers Arturo and Roberto—smuggled liquor into the U.S. during the Prohibition. Once it was over, he switched to drugs, gambling houses, and car thefts until García Ábrego became the bigger guy of the two. [8] ComputerJA (talk) 07:02, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hello. I understand your point that he had a history of previous smuggling activities. But it is analogus to saying that Bill Gates "founded" Microfoft in 1970 because that is when he started to dibble with BASIC computer language. Did Nepomuceno sell booze? Yes, so what? His operation was not a cartel and certainly was NOT called the Gulf Cartel.
Once again: The Gulf Cartel -or ALL other cartels in Mexico for that matter- did not exist until the 1970s. I am in favor of remarking Nepomuceno's bootlegging activities when he was 5-10 years old, but the Gulf Cartel was founded in the 1970s and there are plenty more references I could cite if it comes to that. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 17:16, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey. I do not know if Juan N. Guerra was simply selling booze, because after the end of the Prohibition in 1933, he began to create a criminal syndicate (known as “el cártel de Matamoros) by controlling gambling houses, a car theft network, prostitution rings, and other illegal smuggling.[9] And once his nephew took over, the organization grew, consolidated with Colombia, and became known as the Gulf Cartel. So technically, yes, the Gulf Cartel started in the 1970s, although the criminal ORIGINS of the cartel existed before hand, but were concentrated in Matamoros. That's how I understand it. Thanks for pointing it out. ComputerJA (talk) 10:57, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, sorry that I bring this back again, but I was thinking of shrinking the size of the article by creating a page called "History of the Gulf Cartel." What concerns me, however, is that there are conflicting sources in regards to when the CDG was founded. The United States Department of State, for example, declares that it was in fact founded in the 30s during the Prohibition (see: [10]). Some books and articles state that it has its roots around that time too (see: [11] [12] [13] [14]) What should we do then?
Technically, yes, it was not called the "Gulf Cartel." It was called the Matamoros Cartel; however, that criminal syndicate simply transformed over time into the organization we know today (see: [15]) I was thinking of the Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) as the example of this. The party ruled for 71 years, but under a succession of names. We can still say that the PRI ruled Mexico from 1929-2000, although technically the "PRI" (emphasis on the word) did not. And as I mentioned in the earlier post, N. Guerra did have some powerful criminal influence in the Matamoros area from the 30-70s.
Now, whether the CDG or any Mexican "drug cartel" is really a "cartel" is up the interpretation of what the word means. It implies it has an omnipotent political bloc, and the term has been something the media has bought into due to its common usage. (see: [16]) How can we fix this? ComputerJA (talk) 16:48, 29 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
When the DOS states that it can be traced to the 1930s, they mean that J.N. Guerra started his criminal activities then. If you want the fundation date of the Gulf Cartel, it is a FACT it was in the 1970s. BatteryIncluded (talk) 03:22, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The thing is the DOS does not say that. It explicitly says it was "founded" in the 1930s. If what you say is true, they could've worded the way you did. ComputerJA (talk) 19:45, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Then go ahead. Cherry-pick the only ref that states such thing. I'm out.BatteryIncluded (talk) 21:43, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The least I want to do is make a change like that without your and the watchers' consent. I don't want to sound like I'm pushing for this, but I gave out sources that clearly go against the 1970s foundation—and that is a problem. Maybe when I create the 'History of the Gulf Cartel' article in the summer we can include both sides, and clarify in this article too. Thanks. ComputerJA (talk) 15:51, 1 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • What do you think about my previous edit? [17] I made it to include both sides. ComputerJA (talk)

Gulf cartel in 2012[edit]

Here's a good article in Spanish about the Gulf cartel in 2012. There are some valuable stuff mentioned, which we can use for expansion later. It was a good reading too. [18] ComputerJA (talk) 21:16, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Infighting in the Gulf Cartel[edit]

I'll be adding the info of the Metros and Rojos infighting in the new article. It is better summarized, more comprehensive, and has reliable sources. ComputerJA (talk) 19:43, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]


Good Work[edit]

Not sure who, or what group of, people have been working on this article since I last saw it (many, many months ago at least), but I wanted to say good job. This is the level and quantity of information I feel every cartel article on here deserves. They have and are playing such a major role in the contemporary history of Mexico that I've always felt more info should be out there for when the average citizen reads an article or see's a TV show about a cartel and Google's their name and ends up on Wikipedia. I have had about a year break from regular editing and glad much has been done for the various articles part of the "Mexican Drug War." jlcoving (talk) 04:12, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks! We've been working on this project for quite some time. This article needs some corrections, but I think it's in good shape right now. If you like, please feel free to contribute to the Mexican Drug War series. ComputerJA (talk) 04:48, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Golfo Nueva Generación[edit]

Golfo Nueva Generación is a new branch (or split off group) of the Gulf Cartel. I think it might also be its new name. [19] [20] ComputerJA (talk) 08:49, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

About Gulf-Z in northeastern states[edit]

Some information in semanary proceso a faction of Z joined the CDG, the command of Ivan Velazquez Caballero and family. Whereupon the CDG controls parts of Zacatecas, Nuevo Leon and San Luis Potosi. Information from local media that the CDG controls throw the Huasteca region, middle and center. The Z cartel controls some highland municipalities, like Matehuala.

http://www.proceso.com.mx/?p=320694

--MxAntne (talk) 20:16, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hi. What you mentioned about the Zetas who left to the CDG is explained in Iván Velázquez Caballero's article. I did not find any information about CDG's control in San Luis Potosí, Zacatecas and Nuevo León. The source only says that remnants of Velázquez Caballero's faction OPERATE in the region, but whether they exercise control or not is unknown. ComputerJA (talk) 20:52, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Breitbart News specifically for the Gulf Cartel[edit]

  • Hi Mx. Granger, thank you for your recent edits. Breitbart News is widely regarded as an "unreliable" source on Wikipedia, but I brought up a specific usage for it on articles about the Gulf Cartel at the reliable source noticeboard and in a drug lord's talkpage a few months back. One of the editors on the Mexican Drug War section in this newspaper, Ildefonso Ortiz, is an expert in the Gulf Cartel/Los Zetas. He was hired from The Monitor after working there for many years.
Understanding the Gulf Cartel is extremely difficult, as they are now a conglameration of groups, though the article may not entirely reflect this since it hasn't been updated (i.e. Metros, Rojos, Ciclones, Deltas, Cartel Del Noroeste, Cartel del Centro, Panteras, Gamas, XX, etc.), and with numerous regional warlords per city/town (from my findings, there are about 20–30 "Ciclones" ring leaders just in Matamoros). Breitbart News under Mr. Ortiz has done a great job at keeping up-to-date with the complicated series (see here, here, here, here, and here), just to illustrate a few examples. The leading national press circulations are mostly based in Mexico City (El Universal, La Jornada, Milenio, Proceso, etc.), but they lack a detailed understanding of the major players/day-to-day of the Gulf Cartel. The press in Tamaulipas state, where the Gulf Cartel is headquartered, has high levels of press censorship due to organized crime intimidation. Mexicans there usually rely on the Texan media to understand what's going on (see here, here, here, and here, which even quotes Mr. Ortiz). Local Mexican reporters often work with their counterparts in Texas to publish info without being killed.
I try to be particularly careful with Breitbart News, and whenever I can find an alternative source, I use it. But specifically for the Gulf Cartel, I've found there aren't any that are quite as in-depth (unless there are sources like this, which are not reliable). Any thoughts? Thanks and sorry for the long explanation. MX (✉ • ✎) 14:08, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I remember those discussions. As far as I know, consensus has consistently been that Breitbart is not a reliable source for statements of fact. —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:15, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mx. Granger: Since I'm not actively expanding Gulf Cartel articles (I'm currently working on the Jalisco New Generation Cartel}, I won't revive this discussion in the noticeboard page. But when I do, I'll ping you if you're still around. Cheers! MX (✉ • ✎) 14:49, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Hate crimes?[edit]

Reference? Sollevatore (talk) 19:57, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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