Talk:George Grosz

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Change of name[edit]

Available sources speak of different reasons for changing his name. He was opposed to German nationalism. Quote: The visual arts in Germany 1890-1937: Utopia and despair Shearer West Manchester University Press Page 122 Grosz's disgust with the Germans, whom he depicted as fat and stupid, led him to obsessive pro-Americanism and an official change of his name from Georg to George.

--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 21:14, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Schaffes-s[edit]

I have reverted a revert on an edit of mine which changed the spelling of Grosz's birth name from having a schaffes-s, to the more modern double-s. While I agree that the name was spelled with a schaffes-s on the actual birth certificate, the schaffes-s is in fact totally identical to a double-s, and the schaffes-s symbol is no longer used in German, and has never been used in English. It may be unintelligible to many English readers. The fact that Grosz changed the spelling of his name may be missed by readers, for example, if they do not understand how to read the schaffes-s. I think that for the purpose of an English-langugae article, the schaffes-s should be avoided. - Wwallacee (talk) 09:38, 4 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

For one, it is not called a "schaffes-s" but either "scharfes S" or "Eszett" - and it is not identical with the doouble s - nor is it true that it is no longer used in German, it is - see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9F Albrecht Conz (talk) 14:11, 4 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Albrecht, you're being totally ridiculous. Whether or not I spelled the word correctly, the recht-schreib reform decided to phase out the scharfes S and replace it with a double-S, particularly after a vowel. There are many Germans with this surname who spell it with double-S: see for instance the German Wikipedia article on Heinrich Gross. This standardised spelling is supposed to avoid the kind of confusion we are discussing here. More importantly this is an English encyclopedia! To spell his name with the scharfes S would be like spelling an Egyptian writer's name using Arabic letters. In English speaking countries the surname "Gross" is quite common and is spelled with a double S. Accordingly, I have reverted your revert. -Wwallacee (talk) 17:13, 9 April 2017 (UTC) Wwallacee (talk) 17:13, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Albrecht, you immediately undid my revision of your edit, but without any explanation on the talk page. Accordingly, I am reverting - again. - Wwallacee (talk) 17:26, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You don't give me five miniutes to type out my comment? That's getting silly. Albrecht Conz (talk) 17:31, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Now here's a second try: I am not confident that someone who doesn't know how to spell "Rechtschreibreform" is qualified to make informed comments about it. The reform did not "phase out" the letter ß, it made changes to its usage, and those changes do not apply to names of people or towns etc. George Grosz' birthname was spelled "Groß" and that's that. The argument that the letter "ß" presents a great hurdle for English speakers means that all such letters should be abolished, and I'm not aware of a Wikipedia policy that states that ä, ö, ü, ç, ğ etc. have to go and be replaced by "English" letters meaning Motörhead will have to become "Motorhead", Recep Tayyip Erdoğan will become Erdogan, and Æthelred and Æthelberht will have to be moved to "Ethelred and Ethelbert". Albrecht Conz (talk) 17:42, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, other than the formal resaon to stick to the spelling "Groß" this is also important in order to understand how he came to chose the name he is known by. As an opponent of militarism during WWI he decided to "de-Germanise" and internationalise his name - and thus Georg became the French or English "George", while in his surname he replaced the German "ß" with "sz". Now, the latter replacement is not arbitrary. One of the most common names the letter "ß" is known by is "Eszett" - meaning "SZ". Ever since typewriters and similar techniques became common it has been general usage in German to replace "ß" with "sz" when typing on a typewriter / keyboard that does not provide an ß-key. This means Grosz used this existing rule to internationalise his name. Thus to change his birthname from "Groß" to "Gross" makes nonsense of this.Albrecht Conz (talk) 17:59, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'll tell you what, I am going to split the difference by putting in both spellings, and adding in what you just said as a footnote. - Wwallacee (talk) 11:24, 10 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Arrest, trial for blasphemy, confiscation of sudio works[edit]

It would seem that Ecce Homo (1923), Christ in a Gas Mask, and orher works confiscated and used against Grosz in the context of a blasphemy conviction should have a place in this article. Has anyone else an interest in this subject? It was quite prescient in the 1920s and thus intolerable by Nazi standadas. Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 10:01, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]