Talk:Ganon/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Cukie Gherkin (talk · contribs) 22:19, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

@Cukie Gherkin It has been nearly two weeks since you offered to take this nomination. Are you still up for this? No worries if you became busy off-wiki. The Night Watch (talk) 14:28, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I got kind of busy. I'll be getting to this soon. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 19:06, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi, I won't be able to respond to this GAN within the next week, but will be available afterwards. Fieryninja (talk) 15:26, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

@Fieryninja: Review is done, finish it when you get back. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 14:42, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Lead

1. Removed merch mention in the lead, I feel that the Amiibo is not really important to mention there. As far as Amiibo goes, it may be worthwhile to mention the various Amiibo made for Ganondorf, including his Smash Amiibo and Tears of the Kingdom Amiibo, in the article somewhere. As well as any other merchandise that you may be able to source.

   Done - added merchandise section Fieryninja (talk) 19:34, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Infobox

1. I'd remove "Mandrag Ganon" from the infobox, as it's only supported by the manual. It's fine to mention it in the article, though.

   Done - removed Fieryninja (talk) 19:35, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Concept and creation

1. I'd recommend splitting certain content out of the Character design section and putting it above Names. Have Character design focus on his appearance, while the first part of this section could be about his characterization.
2. VA info should be cited only to BTVA unless it's verified on the site.

   Done - added characterisation section, removed VAs without green tick Fieryninja (talk) 19:36, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Characteristics

1. I know it's cited, but I don't remember him bringing down Hyrule Castle with a single punch? As I recall, he used his energy to bring it down after being defeated as Ganondorf. Unless it's referring to him destroying Hyrule Castle to make way for his castle, in which case, can you elaborate?
2. You should find more sources verifying his ability to create a puppet/phantom Ganon; I'd recommend using Phantom Ganon in Ocarina of Time and Puppet Ganon in Wind Waker as examples.

   Done - removed the sentence about the punch. Added sentences about Phantom Ganon and Puppet Ganon. Fieryninja (talk) 19:38, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Appearances

1. No need to mention he was called Gannon since it was mentioned earlier
2. I don't think it's proper to call them Twinrova, even if the source does. Is there a source that they are identified as Koume and Kotake? I believe they are called that in-game.

   I investigated this by watching footage of Oracle of Seasons and the source is correct. The game refers to the characters as Twinrova. Fieryninja (talk) 14:08, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

3. I elected to tweak the sentence on kidnapping Zelda in WW; explaining Ganondorf's plot is adequate, I think, and that Zelda gets kidnapped isn't specifically cited, just that Ganondorf is trying to do so.
4. Consider including his appearance as a boss in Ultimate if you can find an RS stating it.
5. May be worthwhile to not mention Ghirahim or Zant's appearance in Hyrule Warriors
6. Listing the Game & Watch re-releases seems like a tenuous example of an appearance, akin to citing Virtual Console versions

   Done - removed second mention of Gannon, removed Ghirahim and Zant in Hyrule Warriors, added sentence about boss in Ultimate, removed Game & Watch. Fieryninja (talk) 19:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Reception and legacy

1. I believe too much is discussed about the change from the Spaceworld demo to Wind Waker. I'd recommend merely clarifying that the demo was cancelled and turned into Wind Waker, or find a source that discusses the contrast between TWW Ganondorf and Spaceworld Ganondorf.
2. Can you find a source that says the Ganondorf Gap spanned between Twilight Princess and Tears of the Kingdom?
3. I think it'd be a good idea to just compress the "TotK Ganondorf is sexy" commentary down to something like "This incarnation of Ganondorf has received praise for his sex appeal, with Jenni Lada of Siliconera finding that making him "charismatic and charming" made him feel more than just an evil villain."

   Done - trimmed down Spaceworld demo, repeated Polygon source citing 17 years Ganondorf gap, trimmed down TOTK sexy Ganondorf. Fieryninja (talk) 20:03, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

4. I'd suggest finding more examples of reception regarding the Wind Waker, Ocarina of Time, Breath of the Wild, and Tears of the Kingdom Ganon battles. Might better solidify it as a specific in-depth topic.

   Comment- I'm really struggling with this one. I've meticulously searched for more commentary on the boss fights, but so far have not found anything new. Fieryninja (talk) 22:17, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

5. Overall, I'd suggest looking for ways to expand the reception while paring down more "basic" reception (as I suggested with the comments on his sex appeal). For example, this source [1] would be good to touch upon his representation as a non-white character in the game's world.

   I am unable to access that source, but I have added the Polygon reference to touch on this subject. Fieryninja (talk) 15:55, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

   I think the site is down, because I can't access it right now. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 16:03, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

   [2] Here we go. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 16:12, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

   I can only view the first page of the archived paper, but it discusses the Gerudo in general and doesn't mention Ganondorf specifically. I will keep trying to access the live site. Fieryninja (talk) 22:24, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

6. I would recommend dropping the quote box, as I feel quotes are rarely nondecorative.

   Done - removed quote box Fieryninja (talk) 20:04, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Files

1. I would suggest stronger rationales; for example, try to use some content in the article to bolster the purpose of the Ganondorf and Ganon images. Even though articles tend to justify "identifying the subject" for the lead image, it's always good to strengthen the rationale where possible. And for the Ganon image, I would say something about how there's commentary on both incarnations of Ganon, and thus both incarnations are important to be included. You could also, if you include the piece about the racism in Ganondorf's design and role, cite that as a rationale for the Ganondorf image.

   Done - expanded rationale for both images Fieryninja (talk) 20:05, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

2. I'm unsure about the Calamity Ganon image. I would suggest replacing it with an image of Ganondorf from Tears of the Kingdom and putting that image in the Reception section, since it actually has specific commentary about his appearance. It would also help justify using the screenshot of his first appearance, since, aside from Calamity Ganon, all the images are from the 80s or 90s.
3. Not a failing issue, but the Ganon image has transparency issues that the Ganondorf image does not. On my Wikipedia theme, it shows a white background in the article, but a transparent image when I actually view the image.

   Done - removed Calamity Ganon image, added TOTK Ganondorf to reception Fieryninja (talk) 09:22, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Sources

1. Beyond the Voice Actors isn't a reliable source if there is no checkmark next to the role
2. The source material, particularly the WildBrain video, might be citable (without linking to the video itself) on the Captain N show article, but for Ganon, I'd strongly recommend either dropping the content it's cited to or find a reliable source to switch with it if possible. I'd also suggest replacing the citation to the show with an RS if available.
3. While I understand the use of a translated source, Angelfire is identified as an unreliable source due to being user-created and not a proper primary source. You should find the citations if at all possible to the content it's attached to. Looking into the link, all of it MAY be present in this link: [3]
4. Not a failing issue, but do make sure to archive links, just to be safe. A lot of sites are going down, after all.

   Done - removed VAs without green tick, added new source for Captain N, replaced Angelfire with direct Japanese source, links were recently archived. Fieryninja (talk) 19:48, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

   I archived the broken study. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 20:43, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Aight, we good. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 11:29, 1 September 2023 (UTC)