Talk:Fifteenth Dynasty of Egypt

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WikiProject Ancient Egypt to-do list:

Needed articles.

We should have an article on every pyramid and every nome in Ancient Egypt. I'm sure the rest of us can think of other articles we should have.

Cleanup.

To start with, most of the general history articles badly need attention. And I'm told that at least some of the dynasty articles need work. Any other candidates?

Standardize the Chronology.

A boring task, but the benefit of doing it is that you can set the dates !(e.g., why say Khufu lived 2589-2566? As long as you keep the length of his reign correct, or cite a respected source, you can date it 2590-2567 or 2585-2563)

Stub sorting

Anyone? I consider this probably the most unimportant of tasks on Wikipedia, but if you believe it needs to be done . . .

Data sorting.

This is a project I'd like to take on some day, & could be applied to more of Wikipedia than just Ancient Egypt. Take one of the standard authorities of history or culture -- Herotodus, the Elder Pliny, the writings of Breasted or Kenneth Kitchen, & see if you can't smoothly merge quotations or information into relevant articles. Probably a good exercise for someone who owns one of those impressive texts, yet can't get access to a research library.

Former countries

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Sheshi[edit]

Why isn't Sheshi listed here? His article says he was a fifteenth dynasty ruler. P Ingerson (talk) 16:42, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, this isn't a list as much as a sucession order, and unless we have his position or argued position in the order, we can't put him in. In all likelyhood, however, he's probably a duplicate of someone like salatis. Thanatosimii 20:27, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress which affects this page. Please participate at Talk:Tenth dynasty of Egypt - Requested move and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 23:20, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Hyksos[edit]

Hi Dimadick, you reverted my attempt to redirect this article to Hyksos with the explanation None of the rulers and their identification is covered in the Hyksos article. However, there is an entire section on this, see Hyksos#Rulers.----Ermenrich (talk) 17:17, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

None of the articles on the rulers are linked, their seals are not included, their dates are not included. Everything that the dynasty article has. Dimadick (talk) 17:23, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The rulers are linked as they appear in the text. The dates are uncertain: no one agrees on them. The seals are unimportant, particularly given that only one source thinks two of them belong to Hyksos rulers, and they can be added if you think they're important. I'm not sure I understand your fundamental objections. The information at Hyksos is clearly much better than what's found here, and I'm not just saying that because I wrote it. It uses many more sources than here.--Ermenrich (talk) 17:30, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Additions[edit]

The text that's been added relies heavily on a single work, that of Kim Ryholt and some other works, such as the Encylopedia of Ancient Egypt, which were originally printed in the early 90s. While many of Ryholt's conclusions have been generally accepted (that the sixteenth dynasty aren't Hyksos, for instance, but Thebans) many have not. The study of the second intermediate period has advanced substantially since the 90s due to new archaeological discoveries and new consensus positions.

Just a few examples:

Ryholt's claim that Hyksos wasn't a title used by the Hyksos kings or that only the initial Hyksos kings used it at all is disputed
Ryholt's description of the range of Hyksos rule and the idea that they invaded and replaced the 14th Dynasty are disputed
Ryholt's ordering of the Hyksos kings is disputed
The idea that Khyan conquered all of Egypt is disputed and I believe generally disfavored now
The notion that Hyksos destroyed temples or "ruled without Re" has been generally refuted

More recent sources are cited at Hyksos in the relevant sections, which include some statements of WP:RS/AC on them as well. Most of the sources can be found via google books, Academia.edu, or JSTOR. I'm also happy to provide sources for each of my points.

I am also somewhat concerned that this now just duplicates information found at Hyksos, but that's probably more of a point for the merger discussion.--Ermenrich (talk) 12:38, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]