Talk:Exile

Threat of Persecution

The "threat of persecution" is discussed below but excluded above in the definition. Shouldn't the definition be expanded to include everything discussed later on as exile? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.234.110.47 (talk) 04:25, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Ishmael/Hagar

The bible contains many examples of persons in exile, the most prominent of which may be Ishmael and Hagar. The commentary on my edition of Moby Dick (I can cite if necessary) indicates that the choice of the name "Ishmael" for the narrator is probably due to Ishmael's standing as the bible's prototypical figure of exile. Perhaps there should be a section on exile in the bible or on Ishmael and Hagar? 24.190.132.242 (talk) 17:51, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Pinter

I've removed Harold Pinter from the list of exiles. Pinter has referred to his being kicked out of the US Embassy in Turkey as a "voluntary exile," but it only applied to the embassy, not Turkey or any other country, so it's not really exile as it's described on this page. It was a typically Pinteresque joke. Chick Bowen 22:44, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Stalin

On the Stalin page it is stated that he was in exile between 1902-1917 for his revolutionary activities. I'm hesitating to add him to the exile-list because the information there is contradicting with other information given. Skogstokerier 22:27, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Malcolm Watson

The 'History' section seems to deviate strongly from an outline of the history of the concept/practice of exile/exiling, to a detailed description of the events surrounding one man whose putative exile isn't even intended as such. And even if it were, it is still more of an anecdote than anything specifically relevant to the topic of exile. --24.141.72.177 00:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Fictional People

I'd like to remove the section for "Fictional people who have been in exile" because it does not seem to further the reader's understanding of exile. Perhaps a couple well known examples of fictional people in exile could be added to one of the other sections. Gobonobo ^{T C} 20:01, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to edit your message Gobonobo but I'm a newbie. Could you please how to add a message to a talk page because I don't know my way round this place. Agent008 ^{T C} 10:01, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

• Sure thing. If you click on the history tab at the top of any page, you will see a history of the edits that have been made. Next to people's names, there should be links for 'Talk' and 'contribs'. Just click on 'Talk' and you will be taken straight to their talk page. If you wish to resurrect the list of fictional people in exile, you will find a rather lengthy list on an older version of exile on this page[1]. I would suggest spinning it off into a separate article (see Wikipedia:Embedded_list). Gobonobo ^{T C} 20:31, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the list needs to go entirely, but I think it ought to be trimmed of less notable examples of exile. Examples such as Aragorn from the Lord of the Rings and Romeo from Romeo and Juliet have some quite clear notability, but examples such as Kovu from The Lion King II are not quite so notable. A good way to clean up this section (which by its nature is not simply a trivia section - it's the clutter that makes it so) would be to pick examples which highlight themes regarding exiles in fiction. There are, for example, at least three points which demonstrate a character being exiled for the murder or attempted murder of another, a common theme in fiction, for which Romeo serves as a good, notable example. If we took the notable ones, synthesised them and expanded upon them to demonstrate better how exile is handled in fiction (and in doing so, shake off the list format), pruned the rest and added notices to kindly not add items which do not aid the reader's understanding of how exles in fiction...then we just might have a future for this section. :) --Muna (talk) 02:31, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

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Banishment

Is the redirect from Banishment correct, or should it lead to another article, like deportation? The word 'banishment' is in the lead here, but not in bold. Bever (talk) 22:42, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Voluntary Exile and Escape

I think that the last part of the definition in the lead "...or being threatened with imprisonment or death upon return" is wrong. According to this definition, each criminal escaping from his/her country to avoid imprisonment or death should be considered an exiled person, while he/she is a fugitive trying to escape a sentence. Better would be to define exile in this context as the voluntary abandonment of the homeland, as a consequence of the need, even if only opined, to escape persecution or political or civil violence. In other words, in order to be considered exile, the escape should be perceived (also on the observer's side) as an injustice. Alex2006 (talk) 12:45, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Opening definition is too broad

Here is the present opening sentence:

To be in exile means to be forced away from one's home (i.e. village, town, city, state, province, territory or even country) and unable to return.

This definition is too broad. A man forced to leave his home town because he has debauched the daughters of several prominent families and who knows that, if he should ever return, he will be tarred and feathered, is not in exile. If a totalitarian government trumps up charges against a man and condemns him in perpetuity to Siberia, he is not in exile. If a man cannot find work in his own country, and so emigrates, and while he is abroad a change of government in his own country strips him of his citizenship, he is not in exile. People in witness protection are not in exile. A person forced to leave their town, village, city, or some other social entity in their own country, but who is not forced to leave their own country, is not in exile. You can be exiled only from your country or homeland.

And it is not true that someone exiled cannot return to their homeland: Napoleon returned from exile to Elba. A person who is exiled is forbidden, on pain of some penalty, to return.

Exile may be voluntary or involuntary; in either instance, it is a supremely grave and fateful affair, and its reasons must derive from supremely grave and fateful, world-shattering social or political misfortune, and the social entities that have the power to expel or because of which one quits one's society must be formidable regulative social, political, economic, or religious bodies who can make it impossible to lead an ordinary life or perilous to attempt to do so. Hence the "force" involved is not physical, but is some sort of sanction.

The Oxford English Dictionary defines exile so:

Enforced removal from one's native land according to an edict or sentence; penal expatriation or banishment; the state or condition of being penally banished; enforced residence in some foreign land.

Expatriation, prolonged absence from one's native land, endured by compulsion of circumstances or voluntarily undergone for any purpose.

I therefore suggest this definition:

Exile is primarily penal expulsion from one's native land, and secondarily expatriation or prolonged absence from one's homeland under either the compulsion of circumstance or the rigors of some high purpose.

This captures the essentials of the OED's two definitions.Wordwright (talk) 09:58, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Relevance of part in intro

Article 9 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that "No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile."

This part doesn't feel that relevant especially for an introduction. It concerns arbitrary exile rather than exile itself and doesn't really add anything to the introduction. Steffatta (talk) 20:23, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Adding to this I do think you could mention Article 15 instead which states that everyone has a right to a nationality, and thereby no one is allowed to be exiled. I just feel that the wording for Article 9 is a bit confusing. Steffatta (talk) 10:51, 14 May 2022 (UTC)