Talk:Escape the Fate/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Fair use rationale for Image:Theres no sympathy for the dead.jpg

Image:Theres no sympathy for the dead.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 02:54, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup and Expanding

I've cleaned up this article and expanded it as much as I could not knowing anything about the band, but someone needs to expand it. It was written like an ad on the band and many parts of the article were not consistent with other parts. If anyone could help clarify some information and expand the article, I'd be grateful. Thanks. ╦ﺇ₥₥€Ԋ (talk) 01:06, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Uk Tour

Might want to mention they promised a UK tour due to being unable to play TOC. [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.86.131 (talk) 21:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Regarding Craig Mabbitt

I still say we should find a better source :D ~Ambrosia- talk 20:08, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I think the source that's there is fine. It seems like a reliable source. Timmeh! 23:59, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Image

Uncyclopedia has a picture of them here, but i doubt it would be acceptable...♠♦Д narchistPig♥♣ (talk) 21:06, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

LOL at that! That's pretty cool but i somehow doubt wikipdia would accept it :P Riverpeopleinvasion (talk) 21:10, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Lol. Nice one. It actually probably would be acceptable. You could put it up and see if it gets removed or not. Timmeh! 21:16, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Well,I went for it. Lets see what happens.♠♦Д narchistPig♥♣ (talk) 20:22, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Likely WP:NONFREE and maybe WP:BLP problems with that image. Chubbles (talk) 21:14, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Not sure about NONFREE but possibly BLP for being possibly slightly libelious...If anyone thinks its in blatant violation of something just remove/delete it i guess...♠♦Д narchistPig♥♣ (talk) 21:22, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
I see no indication that the image of ETF has been released under any circumstances, and so fails WP:NONFREE. Also, this is a BLP no-brainer. Come on, guys. Chubbles (talk) 21:33, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Eh. Whatever. Nothing ventured nothing gained, I guess.♠♦Д narchistPig♥♣ (talk) 21:53, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


User: Ronnierocks555

Guys, I know this might be obvious. But this user is constantly reverting this page and adding uncited info. Especially the part relating to an old band member Ronnie. Which makes one ponder if its actually the band member. Needless to say, we're going to do some research on the topic. Until then, please make sure his posts are constructive and not superfluous. Thanks! --InvisibleDiplomat666 17:04, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

There are already two sources stating that Radke has left the band and has been replaced by Craig Mabbit. If these people disagree, let them state their arguments here on the talk page. But as long as they don't, their edits will just be reverted. I believe they are all just fans of the band and won't accept that Radke has left. Timmeh! 18:39, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe there is any official source though that states that Ronnie isn't part of the band. If there is please tell me, it should be official though. NTAEndar (talk) 04:24, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

As long as reliable sources are cited, it doesn't need to be "official" (from the band itself). Timmeh! 20:15, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

http://www.escapethefate.net/news/june08/etf_news1.html .... heres a good source, its on the website and a band member actually states that ronnie was kicked out of the band and that probably hell never comeback, it also states that craig is officially in the band i guess... oh and it has a lot of info about ronnie and about what happen and personal opinions and a lot of thinks that should be told about the band... im not saying you have to put it up, i just read it and it was very informative, its a bit long thou but if you have time then read it : D i think fans would be very interested —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jankunas22 (talk • contribs) 23:29, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

New album leak

The album has leaked into torrent websites, I believe this should be adressed in the article. The leak is legit and I have checked it for myself. - XClaudiox (talk) 21:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Information about album leaks is not considered to be notable information unless there are reliable third-party sources covering the info, and either the band or the public had some sort of reaction to the leak. Here are a few examples of notable leaks: The Devil and God Are Raging Inside Me#History and Minutes to Midnight (album)#Leak. A leak date alone should never be posted. Fezmar9 (talk) 23:41, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Ma friend got the album on 9th OCtober!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.94.13.21 (talk) 06:32, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Ronnie Radke: 4 Years probation or 4 years in jail?

Yeah, so it says here in the ETF article that Ronnie got sentenced to be in jail for 4 years but is says on the Ronnie Radke article that it's 4 years probation.

So how does it really go?

CRaiGaFeR14™ t | tl 15:15, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, we need to include this in this and his article because its pretty confusing, I would have guessed he went to jail otherwise he wouldnt need firing, and what did he do to even get probation? answers people :D --Casket56 (talk) 22:45, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Umm, well before he originally got probation for drugs. He went to jail because he decided not to go to probation because he didn't like the terms: he couldn't come with ETF on tours. CRaiGaFeR14™ t | c 09:37, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

The Word Alive

Should it be refered in the article that Mabbitt left TWA continue touring with ETF? Not quite sure wheter it should be adressed or not. -XClaudiox (talk) 05:57, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Omar Espinosa

Why is Omar removed from the article as a member? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.88.47.250 (talk) 08:14, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I believe it was suggested that you work in your userspace. Please review our music notability guidelines. Having an allmusic entry is not necessarily evidence of notability. Which of the criteria does this band satisfy? I'll hold off on actually nominating this for deletion for a little bit, to give you time to put that info into the article, but I can't promise others won't. ++Lar: t/c 05:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

There is something wrong...at the end of the article there is something about ronnie having a sexual relation with a dog in order to be accepted back in the band or something...someone fix it. Bye. 213.140.21.231 18:01, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Why didn't YOU fix it? You made other edits. But, anyway, I guess I'll have to remove it, also please stop removing the part about Ronnie leaving the band. It is true, just look at the official MySpace. ╦ﺇ₥₥€Ԋ(talk/contribs) 21:46, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

That's not valid. The Myspace page was created by the band, so therefore it isn't a 3rd party source.Spencer Divonn'io The Glorious. You'll see me in History someday. 04:22, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


Hey some should write that they are re releasing this war is ours it says it will contain 2 bonus songs a dvd and an all new cover it is being released in Aprilmy reference http://www.fist2face.com.au/product.cfm?artist=Escape-The-Fate&product=This-War-Is-Ours-rerelease&cat=Music-CD-EP&product_id=12235&PageNo=2&sort_seller_id=0&sort_cat_id=0&seller_id=568 (UTC)

Situations EP

They also have an EP out called Situations. I personally, have only one song from it, but I do have the art. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.57.118.18 (talk) 02:03, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


I have the art, is there any way to transfer it from iTunes onto Wikipedia, because I can't find an option to save the image.

This sentance in Departure of Radke and Espinosa (2006-2008)

"Radke was present at the fight that led to Cook's death and was incarcerated with a chance of parole in 2008, due to the fact he could not pass his drug tests."

Firstly, the sentance makes no sense, he isn't going to have a chance for parole 'because' he failed the drug tests. Can someone fix this, I'm assuming he was jailed because of the failed drug tests, but has a chance for parole.

Secondly, who is Cook? He's not mentioned in the rest of the article. Someone needs to explain this fight, and who Cook is for the sentance to make sense.

Thanks. Fol de rol troll (talk) 23:36, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Maybe you could work on the article and build it up to at least something readable. That would be great if you could do that, as this article really needs work. Timmeh! 00:07, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
I came across this article by pure chance, edit checking Recent Changes for Vandalism. I've never heard of this band and have no idea of where to start. I'm just pointing out a flaw in an attempt to improve the article. Fol de rol troll (talk) 00:11, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Well, if you're ever looking for something to do, some article to improve, this one will be here. It's not hard finding online sources for a modern band. Timmeh! 00:47, 20 April 2009 (UTC)


Partial Lock or something needed?

I just edited out "Craig Mabbitt is a Nazi" and some other stupid comments that someone put, have done this multiple times, maybe this article should be set so only users with accounts can edit it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ThatDarnBandit (talk • contribs) 03:29, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Videos?

Escape The Fate has said they finished recording a new video, but there is no positive proof the new video is 10 Miles Wide. Craig did at some point mention before they recorded it that he thought it might be 10 miles wide but he wasn't 100% sure-- So can somebody edit the article to change "10 Miles Wide" to something along the lines of "a new video has been recorded, but the song for this video has not been revealed yet" ? This page has a lock so I can't do it myself. Thanks! user:Raktoner —Preceding undated comment added 05:03, 11 May 2009 (UTC).

The Beginning

The Beginning says they started up on myspace, but they've stated multiple times in interviews that they have been in bands together throughout high school and they did not meet up through myspace. If you don't believe me you should listen to their AP Magazine Pod-cast interview. User:Raktoner —Preceding undated comment added 18:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC).

Why are they post-hardcore?

Remember when you actually had to have hardcore punk in your sound to be a post-hardcore band? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.110.234.231 (talk) 21:44, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Things have changed. You should know that. Just like how Metalcore has changed. If you know hardcore, you should know Metalcore. Metalcore used to be Shai Hulud and Earth Crisis. Now it's Bullet for My Valentine and As I Lay Dying. Granted, AILD is way more Metalcore than BFMV, but still, it's nowhere close to Shai Hulud or Earth Crisis. That's just how it happens. Meanings change. But anyway, by today's definition, they're Post-Hardcore (actually they're kinda Hard Rock with their latest album, but whatever). So, we keep it. 69.251.198.48 (talk) 06:11, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm aware of change, but I still don't see how Escape The Fate is post-hardcore. They sound like they're trying to be a modern version of Motley Crue while incroporating a tiny amount of post-hardcore influence (the screaming). With AILD, the hardcore influence is a lot easier to notice than in this band. I'm not a lhuddite, I think post-hardcore still carries on today with bands such as Alexisonfire. The thing is, they have an extremely noticeable hardcore punk influence, and there are notceable similarites between them and post-hardcore bands of ten years ago (such as Refused). Terms change, but not THIS much.

I Find They are more of a Metalcore band on their latest album. This war is ours (the song) has the same structure and style as the All That Remains song Chiron. The Flood also seems like metalcore seeing as it has a breakdown. Even The Guillotine from Dying Is Your Latest Fashion has a metalcore sound. KezianAvenger (talk) 20:10, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

They are (or could be, or should be) listed as post-hardcore because that's what AMG says at http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:jnfrxqqsldte. See the box on the left where Escape the Fate is categorized as Pop/Rock, Screamo, and Post-Hardcore. I think that's wrong, but what you and I think doesn't matter much in this case because the standard is verifiability, not truth, and AMG is more authoritative than our personal opinions. That said, AMG does accept feedback/corrections from readers. The correction/feedback form for Escape the Fate is at http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:jnfrxqqsldte~T6. SlubGlub (talk) 18:25, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

genre

Alright, in my opinion i think that it should be noticed that they totally have a pop-punk influence with their music. I mean i understand they arent totally because of breakdowns, screaming, and guitar riffs. but songs like something, this is not the end, situations, stories and alibies, are in my opinon almost completely pop-punk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.226.79.244 (talk) 05:06, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


dude, the music is emo(core) there's now screaming and the melodies are poppy, there's nothing that could be considered really hardcore or metalcore except for some screaming here and there. so i would say the genre of the old stuff is emocore and the newer stuff is emo / pop-punk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.160.167.172 (talk) 08:09, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Genre??.....post-hardcore and......

I says on the Escape the Fate article that apart from post-hardcore they are hard rock and metalcore. Is this true? Xxxloosingsympathyxxx (talk) 23:12, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I have no idea. It might be helpful to find some sources for the genres. Actually, a musical style section should be created, as sources for genres are more appropriate there. Timmeh 23:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Cool i'll look into it.... Xxxloosingsympathyxxx (talk) 23:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Here's a list of the songs that are Metalcore. The Webs We Weave, The Guillotine, There's No Sympathy For the Dead, My Apocalypse (possibly), Dragging Dead Bodies in Blue Bags Up Really Long Hills, The Flood, You Are So Beautiful, This War is Ours and 10 Miles Wide. I hope this helps! KezianAvenger (talk) 14:38, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

  • That's great that you think those songs fit into the metalcore genre. However, Wiki pages are based on facts, not opinions. Find sources proclaiming the band to have a metalcore sound and this can be added to the genre description section. Hsxeric (talk) 14:35, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

I was moreso just helping Xxxloosingsympathyxxx find some examples of their metalcore songs. However, I have been meaning to add metalcore to the genres in the infobox so I will. KezianAvenger (talk) 11:49, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I can't believe that nobody mentions their metalcore elements in reviews! KezianAvenger 20:47, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


I believe that ETF's metalcorish... Many songs display various characteristics of the Metalcore genre. Songs like The Flood, The Guillotine, This War is Ours, There's no Sympathy for the Dead, 10 Miles Wide. -darksluke23

Minor Errors

{{editsemiprotected}} Ronnie Radke isnt under the band member and he should be hes the lead singer

According to the article, he is a former member. If you can provide a (recent) reliable source saying otherwise, replace the {{editsemiprotected}} and I or someone else will change it. Intelligentsium 00:19, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

response to Escape The Fate being emo.

I for one don't consider Escape The Fate to be an "emo" band. Emo is just a stereotype that is often stuck on people/bands/music/ect just because of the way they dress, act, or look. Personally I don't agree with stereotypes. In my opinion stereotypes just tear people down, making them an easier target for bad publicity and shame. I just thought i should get my opinion. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.72.76.211 (talk) 01:42, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

yeah but wikipedia is about cited information from reliable sources, not the users own opinions. i do, however, completely agree. emo is a dead genre, it died early 2000s. bands like etf are only considered emo because thats what mtv says is emo today. --Leaf7 (talk) 15:59, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Re-release

Would you say that [[2]] is a credible source to put for the re-release? I dunno exactly what to put so if somebody better than me at editting could put it that would be fantastic. ~Raktoner Get at me

It could be used as one, yes, I believe. But I'd think a source coming from the band, or better yet, their label, would hold more to it. And I do believe the article says Epitaph announced it, but I am yet to find it, if you do, please add it as a source. o_o

~Accomplish nothing, Overcome none, Die without, Keep it coming, I'm all that and more. ... Or less~ 06:55, 22 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by DXSwanton (talk • contribs)

The Genre.

I've been looking at their albums and genres, their earlier stuff is emo (more-less). On the newer stuff they are post-hardcore (which is written and correct), and metalcore (which is mistakenly put as screamo). —Preceding unsigned comment added by AwesomeUsername555 (talk • contribs) 14:21, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Ronnie Radke

Ronald Joseph Radke (Ronnie Radke) was born December 15th, 1983, in North Las Vegas, Nevada. He grew up a difficult life, his mother and brother both being drug addicts. He became homeless at age sixteen with fellow [1] band mate Max Green. The friends met in their Freshmen year of high school. The two were in several small bands together before forming [2] in 2003. Radke found Robert Ortiz, Bryan "Monte" Money(Who is now going out with Antonia) , and Omar Espinosa and officially created the band. They created an EP called A Whole New Tragedy, which was never released. After signing with Epitath Records, the band released an official EP called [3]. After Joining Warp Tour 2006, the band released their first full length album [4] on September 26th, 2006. Radke, who was a struggling drug addict for most of his life, was sent to prison for several reasons. In 2005, he was involved in a fight that led to the death of 18 year old Mike Cook. This led to Radke being on probation. As Radke was on probation, the band was not allowed to leave the state of Nevada with Radke. In December of 2007, [5] decided to fire Radke. After he was fired, Radke broke his probation and was sent to prison on June 15th, 2008. He was sentenced to four years in prison with possible chance of probation in 2010. From Prison, Radke started a new band called Falling In Reverse. The band has created a few instrumental songs but will wait to release an entire album when Radke gets out of jail in September of 2010. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.182.28.203 (talk) 01:09, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Escape The Fate
  2. ^ Escape The Fate
  3. ^ There Is No Sympathy For The Dead
  4. ^ Dying Is Your Latest Fashion
  5. ^ Escape The Fate

Max's Clothing line

Should add a link to a new page with Max's clothing line. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.118.123.89 (talk) 22:04, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Re-Release Cover Art

I inserted the re-release Cover Art, although technically the file has no official source--in the case that it can't be used, please get rid of it. However, I feel it needs to stay there; the article is getting bigger and it's rather ugly to look at just text when a picture could indeed be inserted here or there. ~Raktoner Get at me —Preceding undated comment added 23:16, 4 April 2010 (UTC).

"Special Editions" Section's

Well, since already they could have seen, the re-release of the disc " This War Is Ours " in deluxe special edition, it has caused a bit of disorder to the article, I suggest, for a major classification of information, that this article should move in a new section... "Special Editions", bearing in mind that is very probable that in a following album, extract another Deluxe Edition, and they will turn the problems, this album is not considered to be EP, then for that this there? Admins please I wait for his prompt response, this well-read article for diary, it is not possible report badly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by UltraHeadShot (talk • contribs) 17:58, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 72.161.150.58, 11 July 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} The last line of the "deluxe edition and 3rd studio album" says that they have a few songs to record, but they don't, they finished. it needs changed.

72.161.150.58 (talk) 17:17, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  Davtra  (talk) 03:11, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Money

Bryan is a keyboardist since 2008, not is a keyboardist since 2004, this is the place of Carson early, Radke next. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.220.232.51 (talk) 00:18, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

genre

the new genre is metal. not post-hardcore and whoever put them as metal core is a fool —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.77.215.106 (talk) 16:13, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Members

RONNIE is a lead vocalist/keyboardist, remove the view soucie please —Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.40.83.102 (talk) 23:33, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Someone should make a page for ronnie radke

currently, seaching for a ronnie radke page on wikipedia redirects you to Escape the fate. considering that there is a lot of info on him and that he is no longer in escape the fate, he should have his own page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Newburro (talk • contribs) 14:59, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

He doesn't meet requirements to have a wikipedia page. Since he is a major part of Escape The Fate's history, he will redirect here as always.--Raktoner (talk) 15:59, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Well when will he get a page, last year someone made A falling in reverse page then someone deleted it. Can someone make a page for him and Falling in reverse, I know he hasn't been heard from latley but he is still working can someone make a page, even his doesn't reach the "Requirements" he should have one. Infact can someone make on for omar and allen, omars been in 4 bands he should have on , and max, and bryan, and, robert they've been in there long enough —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.97.129.32 (talk) 18:45, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Rakde is not notable enough for his own article, neither is falling in reverse. Radke's only notability is that he sung for a then semi famous band. as ronnie himself said "not good enough". Even if he did have an article, it would be way to small. Falling in reverse has no albums, real songs, awards, charting songs, ect. They are no where near notable enough. Their just a garage band pretty much. Ronnie doesn't get an article cause he is only famous from escape the fate. Craig met requirements because he was in 3 fairly successful bands (BTF, TWA. ETF) He meets requirments. Radke doesn't. - D33DeeD33Guy

he has here are some songs listen up, red alert, this is the worst time, the departure. and what about omar espinosa hes been in 4 bands 1. escape the fate 2. perfect like me 3. black and white city 4. sky diamond city (current) and carson allen is in his own band on the last day so he should get a page, and when falling in reverse does make an album will they get there own page along with ronnie, and in ronnie article you could write about his time in escape the fate, his drug problem, the death of michael cook and his upcoming album with falling in reverse

The departure and the worst time don't count because they are raws/demos. Hell the departure isn't even a song so much as it is a freestyle. Listen up was made when he was 18 (so he claims, really don't believe it), so that can't count for falling in reverse. Red alert has no studio version. As much as I would like for Omar to have a page, he doesn't meet notability requirements at all (although you forgot to mention he was LovaHateHero). Same goes for Radke, sure he's more well know then Omar, but he doesn't have any importance or significance

what about the current members Robert Ortiz, Bryan "Monte" Montey, Max Green. And what's wrong with Omar having a page and will ronnie get a page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericdeaththe2nd (talk • contribs) 18:48, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


when Ronnie's band falling in reverse gets an album and a label will he get a page??? because i know what things people could add like his drug problem, death of michael cook but thats when he meets the requirements — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericdeaththe2nd (talk • contribs) 18:52, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


look spain get a ronnie radke article http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronnie_Radke — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericdeaththe2nd (talk • contribs) 15:19, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Attention

Faliing In Reverse and Ronnie Radke should NOT be redirected or linked whats so ever to Escape The Fate.

Ronnie Radke was the previous singer of Escape Thate Fate in 2008 and he then was replaced by Craig Mabbit.

Please remove the re - direction of there articles.

He's not notable enough on his own - D33DeeD33Guy —Preceding undated comment added 18:04, 16 February 2011 (UTC).

Liar look allthe members get a page in spain

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ortiz

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Espinosa

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Green

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronnie_Radke

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Money —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.246.241 (talk) 18:53, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Falling in Reverse

Should not link back to ETF. They are two separate bands. Anthony Green used to sing for Saosin, and now he sings for Circa Survive. But when I try to go to the Circa Survive page, it doesn't take me to Saosin. So Falling in Reverse should not take me to Escape the Fate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.78.70.20 (talk) 17:25, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

We realise that they're not the same band, but FiR are not notable on their own, and so their name, for whatever reason, links back here. Personally, I don't think it should link anywhere, but that's cool. Fol de rol troll (talk) 23:36, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

I work for Ronnie's manager, and at the request of Ronnie, he would like to get his own page and one for his new band that is updated with accurate information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.219.103.128 (talk) 07:35, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Then tell Ronnie to get his new band and himself to do something notable that satisfies WP:MUSIC. Fol de rol troll (talk) 18:53, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

hi um ronnies written some songs and you don't have to write about fir make a page about ronnie talking about his work with escape the fate, his drugs problems, michael cooks death and his new band and whoola you got an article


Hi it's ericdeaththe2nd falling in reverse now has their own wikipedia page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.246.156 (talk) 21:49, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Dead Masquerade Tour

Read the sentence someone wrote.


What? That makes absolutely no sense; it isn't proper english and it's been like that for about 6 months now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.220.14.194 (talk) 00:46, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Associated Act's

Hi you forgot to add The Black And White City, Sky Diamond City and Lovehatehero (Omar joined the bands after he left escape the fate) he left BAWC and LHH and is currently in Sky Diamond City and also put My Chemical Romance i think you know why its in the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.2.128.78 (talk) 22:44, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Bassist

For what Max no plays in ETF now (?) references please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chemikalero9 (talk • contribs) 04:21, 15 June 2011 (UTC)


I'm sure he hasn't left as Escape The Fate as the band hasn't announced anything. I'm sure this is just a false rumour as Max has confirmed he'll be back in August. DannyETF (talk) 23:59, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Ronnie Radke

he has a page now Wikipedia:Article Incubator/Ronnie Radke —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.246.73 (talk) 13:09, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Please refrain from linking to the incubation page for Ronnie Radke. Articles in Wikipedia mainspace are only allowed to link to other articles in Wikipedia mainspace. Until the proposed article is moved to mainspace, please be sure to only link to it on talk pages. Thank you. Fezmar9 (talk) 01:06, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Okay sorry i didn't know about that - Ericdeaththe2nd (talk) 19:42, 11 July 2011 (UTC)ericdeaththe2ndEricdeaththe2nd (talk) 19:42, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Omar Espinosa

should we reconsider him having a page, hes been in lots of bands and does composing and producing, he did compose two songs for Falling In Reverse

List Of Bands

Perfect Like Me

LoveHatehero

The Black And White city

and hes produced some songs for a band called Sky Diamond Citys and composed two tracks is "Don't Mess With Ouija" and "Goodbye Graceful" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.97.129.11 (talk) 14:53, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from , 11 November 2011

Edit Bryan Monte Money to Monte Bryan Money.

Amber9521 (talk) 20:10, 11 November 2011 (UTC) Please change Bryan Monte Money to Monte Bryan Money because Bryan Monte Money is not his correct name.His real name is Monte Bryan Money Jr. It even says it on his Myspace.

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. and Myspace isn't a reliable source. CTJF83 18:34, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Carson Allen and Omar Espinosa

they should not be redirecter here they both have pages now http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carson_Allen_(Musician) and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Espinosa_(Musician) - Ericdeaththe2nd (talk) 23:03, 17 November 2011 (UTC)Ericdeaththe2ndEricdeaththe2nd (talk) 23:03, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Christmas cover

Escape The Fate are releasing a Christmas cover in December 2011, I would be highly grateful if you were to update this information.

XTHISWARISOURSx (talk) 13:19, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

 Not done, needs a source--Jac16888 Talk 13:28, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry but that is not for me to do, plus can your provide a reliable source, thank you - Ericdeaththe2nd (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:50, 19 December 2011 (UTC).

Edit request on 18 December 2011

Change Max Greens time from 2004- to 2004-2011 and change it saying that he was kicked and currently with a new band called Natural Born Killers.

  • -  Not done

Not accurate, the band hasn't announced this please provide a reliable source by the band itself or someone within the band Ericdeaththe2nd (talk) 21:55, 19 December 2011 (UTC)ericdeaththe2ndEricdeaththe2nd (talk) 21:55, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

76.214.205.72 (talk) 02:27, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 December 2011

Change Max Green from a current member to a former member since he is now in a new band called Natural Born Killers. Read all of these Tweets: www.twitter.com/shawnspencer_

76.214.205.72 (talk) 18:25, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

  • -  Not done - I looked at your external - and found nothing to suppot this desired edit. You will need a WP:RS - Reliable source to claim such as this. Thanks - Youreallycan (talk) 16:48, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 21 December 2011

Max recently Tweeted saying "the band and I" meaning that he is still in ETF

76.214.205.72 (talk) 22:04, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

But "the band and I" could also mean that he thinks he is not still in ETF. This needs a reliable source before the article can be updated. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:54, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Tours - Europe 2011

The band referred to in this section, "The Bunny, The Bear and Straight Lines" is actually called "The Bunny the Bear" and does have a Wikipedia page unlike the article states, it is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bunny_the_Bear. Joshuabarker (talk) 22:04, 3 January 2012 (UTC)


Omar Espinosa

you might want to put Perfect Like Me into the assoicated acts column, omars rejoined Perfect Like Me (see on there facebook page information column http://www.facebook.com/perfectlikeme?sk=info — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.168.96.136 (talk) 22:17, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Departure of Max Green

I know there's no confirmed info on this, but surely we should at least be noting that at recent gigs, he's not present? (Chill (talk) 19:24, 28 February 2012 (UTC))

Photo

Heres a photo of the 2005 line up. I was given permission of it's usage by Carson Allen  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericdeaththe2nd (talk • contribs) 18:03, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

MEMBERS

CAN YOU DECIDE WETHER TJ BELL IS MEMBER, AND IF MICHAEL MONEY AND ZAKK SANDLER ARE TOURING! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.247.158 (talk) 18:52, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Escape the Fate new song

Escape The Fate have announced the name of a new song with Patrick Stump called "Paintings"

http://www.noisecreep.com/2012/04/11/escape-the-fate-noisecreep-interview/#photo-17 — Preceding unsigned comment added by XTHISWARISOURSx (talk • contribs) 22:25, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Adding this information in now. Thanks for the post Panic Reaper (talk) 22:24, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Ronnie Radical Radke

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_creation/Ronnie_Radke please help me improve this article, if this post is removed i will report it for vandalism and have it seen by admins Ericdeaththe2nd (talk) 21:26, 20 April 2012 (UTC)ericdeaththe2ndEricdeaththe2nd (talk) 21:26, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

The page would not meet the requirements for a musician page anyway, so it'll be redirected back to Falling in Reverse's page.Panic Reaper (talk) 03:56, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Screamo

They are screamo. It's the version of emotional hardcore with some screaming vocals used at least-always in the music. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheMetallican (talk • contribs) 22:35, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

They are not screamo, they are Post-Hardcore. Sign your comments next time. TJD2 (talk) 12:28, 3 May 2012 (UTC)


They are screamo, just listen to the vocals and read the lyrics. Screamo was the emotional hardcore music with screaming vocals used.[1] [2] [3] [4]

Quotes from these citations

"Sound: Gaining the attention of Interscope Records apparently had everything to do with Escape The Fate’s decision to embrace a heavier sound, the product of which you’ll hear on the band’s self-titled debut. The Las Vegas’ quartet utilizes more guitar parts for a good chunk of the record, but there are the occasional moments where you could say it delves into your traditional emo category. Those selections are outnumbered by strict post-hardcore/metalcore fare, which is driven in large part by guitarist Bryan “Monte” Money’s technical ability and keen sense of melody." -Ultimate guitar

"Appearing amid the fertile screamo scene of the 2000s, the Las Vegas quintet Escape the Fate prided itself, above all else, on an energetic and visceral live show. " - All music

"Las Vegas 5 piece emo hardcore outfit known as Escape the Fate, release their debut EP that will leave their contemporaries for dead, as it is one hell of an angst ridden sonic assault. Shunning the typical fashionably suicidal aesthetic that seems to come part and parcel with most emo bands, Escape the Fate are awesome musicians with a hatred for their surroundings and a desperation that fuels their screaming harmonies and goosebump inducing guitar hooks. With influences spanning from early Used to Aiden to Underoath, it’s refreshing to see a band with quality musicianship pull off tracks like the strikingly powerful hardcore anti-ballad ‘The Ransom’, rip through fantastic riffs that grace ‘Dragging Dead Bodies In Blue Bags Up Really Long Hills’ and conjure up shout out loud fist in the air chorus lines in the form of ‘The Guillotine’ that is as cool as it is thunderingly heavy. These Las Vegas boys will surely break free from the stigma attached to the Emo label as their sound is fresh, violent and full of promise. No gimmicks, no stupid “My girlfriend has left me” lines, just ****ing awesome riffs that would put impress Maiden larynx bursting chorus lines that would make Funeral For A Friend nervous and a knife fight attitude. A band to keep on the radar." - Gig wise


~~TheMetallican~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheMetallican (talk • contribs) 23:29, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about and are new to Wikipedia. First of all, they appeared among the screamo MUSIC SCENE. This does not make them screamo. Escape The Fate is post-hardcore. I can't believe I'm having this discussion. Sign your post with four tildes and cite your sources in a proper format next time.TJD2 (talk) 23:34, 3 May 2012 (UTC)


Metalcore is a modern fusion of both hardcore punk and heavy metal. Metalcore is known for its emphasis on breakdowns and heavy guitar riffs. Screamed vocals dominate metalcore. Singing is usually present, but the emphasis is on screamed vocals. A lot of bands that are casually referred to as "hardcore" or "metal" are actually metalcore bands. Metalcore has practically taken over the heavy metal music scene.
Screamo is one specific derivative form of hardcore punk. It has nothing to do with heavy metal. It denotes a fusion of hardcore punk and emo, generally featuring emotional lyrics, transitions from soft to heavy passages, and screamed vocals accompanied by more melodic singing. The word screamo is misused all the time. People often call any music with screaming in it "screamo". But screamo is actually only one specific genre. The genre itself is still very popular. There are lots of modern screamo bands that more-or-less still meet the same basic stylistic requirements of screamo.
Post-hardcore is a direct derivative of hardcore punk (hence the title post-hardcore). It simply defines any modern hardcore punk with high levels of experimentation. I know you didn't ask about this genre, but I felt it appropriate to mention. Post-hardcore represents a very wide range of musical styles. Post-hardcore bands may take influence from many other styles of music, and are often closely associated with alternative rock or punk. What identified post-hardcore, though, is the inclusion of hardcore punk elements like screamed vocals. If a band uses screamed vocals and heavy instrumentation, but is not heavy enough to be considered metalcore, then the band will often be labeled post-hardcore. 90.205.53.223 (talk) 22:33, 5 May 2012 (UTC)ericdeaththe2nd90.205.53.223 (talk) 22:33, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Like i said read the lyrics, they're screamo post-hardcore. I already sourced. Shit even allmusic labels them screamo.

You will be blocked from editing if you continue. I checked your talk, you already have numerous warnings against you. You can't even sign your posts with the four tildes even though I told you how. Cite your reliable sources in the correct format and sign your posts, then MAYBE people will take you seriously. Please don't be a genre troll like some of those pesky IPs.TJD2 (talk) 05:42, 5 May 2012 (UTC)w
Metalcore is a modern fusion of both hardcore punk and heavy metal. Metalcore is known for its emphasis on breakdowns and heavy guitar riffs. Screamed vocals dominate metalcore. Singing is usually present, but the emphasis is on screamed vocals. A lot of bands that are casually referred to as "hardcore" or "metal" are actually metalcore bands. Metalcore has practically taken over the heavy metal music scene.
Screamo is one specific derivative form of hardcore punk. It has nothing to do with heavy metal. It denotes a fusion of hardcore punk and emo, generally featuring emotional lyrics, transitions from soft to heavy passages, and screamed vocals accompanied by more melodic singing. The word screamo is misused all the time. People often call any music with screaming in it "screamo". But screamo is actually only one specific genre. The genre itself is still very popular. There are lots of modern screamo bands that more-or-less still meet the same basic stylistic requirements of screamo.
Post-hardcore is a direct derivative of hardcore punk (hence the title post-hardcore). It simply defines any modern hardcore punk with high levels of experimentation. I know you didn't ask about this genre, but I felt it appropriate to mention. Post-hardcore represents a very wide range of musical styles. Post-hardcore bands may take influence from many other styles of music, and are often closely associated with alternative rock or punk. What identified post-hardcore, though, is the inclusion of hardcore punk elements like screamed vocals. If a band uses screamed vocals and heavy instrumentation, but is not heavy enough to be considered metalcore, then the band will often be labeled post-hardcore. 90.205.53.223 (talk) 22:34, 5 May 2012 (UTC)ericdeaththe2nd90.205.53.223 (talk) 22:34, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

But they do have hardcore mixed with emo. Emo is short for emotional hardcore. Read the lyrics, they're emotional. (talk) 21:30, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Nope, in their early days with Ronnie they were Emo but the added screams made their music "Metalcore" since Craig their genre has changed they are no longer Emo but more Metalcore. Ericdeaththe2nd (talk) 13:36, 6 May 2012 (UTC)ericdeaththe2ndEricdeaththe2nd (talk) 13:36, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Associated acts

Before re-adding all the bands like Attack Attack! and other nonsense that have really nothing to do with Escape the Fate (among me wanting to mention myself why anyone would think Attack Attack! even in the slightest has to do with ETF) see here » Template:Infobox musical artist. This guideline clearly says that bands should not be added if they're just solo projects, only have one member in common between both musical groups and other reasons. So thus Falling in Reverse and much of the other bands should not be added to this field. • GunMetal Angel 23:08, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Then why is it that literally NO other page follows the same guideline and YOU don't do anything about that on the other pages you edit?Panic Reaper (talk) 21:05, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Last I checked, a majority of articles such as Woe, Is Me, The Devil Wears Prada (band), After the Burial, Winds of Plague, Cannibal Corpse, Breathe Carolina and several others were enforced by me in terms of following this guideline. And besides, even if I didn't do it, that has nothing to do with this discussion. Just because I haven't done something (yet) does not mean a guideline should be ignored and it especially does not mean you should edit war with somebody doing something right. • GunMetal Angel 23:04, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Well thanks for removing my comment I agree i shouldn't of attacked you but I agree acts that Craig have associated with shouldn't be up there but I think Falling in Reverse, BlesstheFall, Lovehatehero, On the Last Day and Me vs. Myself should at be up there or at least get a mention although FIR, BTF, and LHH all did i think Me vs. Myself should. Ericdeaththe2nd (talk) 13:53, 13 May 2012 (UTC)ericdeaththe2ndEricdeaththe2nd (talk) 13:53, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

WP:RPA says personal attacks should be removed on sight. Also, there is already mention in the article of how members of these bands are in Escape the Fate, but per the guideline, it is not considered an associated act. • GunMetal Angel 13:57, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

I know I was just saying thank you, and I see but would i be allowed to write "After the EP's release, keyboardist Carson Allen left the band to join On the Last Day (Which he had also left to join Me vs. Myself)." or would it seem unnecessary to mention Ericdeaththe2nd

I thought you were being sarcastic about the "thank you" and you can put that on the page. All my reverts were only made to the infobox edits since they're going against a guideline. If source can be found for the keyboardist leaving the band and moving on to another one, then by all means, go right ahead and add it in. • GunMetal Angel 14:06, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Nope, and Ah right I see now and okay will do Ericdeaththe2nd (talk) 14:09, 13 May 2012 (UTC)éŕiĉďéáțĥțĥę2ndEricdeaththe2nd (talk) 14:09, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

would http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=1291902 and http://www.absolutepunk.net/tags/on-the-last-day/ be considered reliable? Ericdeaththe2nd (talk) 14:12, 13 May 2012 (UTC)ericdeaththe2ndEricdeaththe2nd (talk) 14:12, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

The first source seems fine, use that. I'm not exactly the source expert, but I'm sure if it's not reliable, the ref will get removed from the page. Just give it a shot, you have nothing to lose. • GunMetal Angel 14:26, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Okay, good so far, but yet again is it necessary to have TJ redirected to Motionless in White, if you want to redirect him somewhere then it could his last band he was in Get Scared. Ericdeaththe2nd

The only reason why I have him linked there is due to the fact that Motionless in White is the band that he was originally a part of and if it wasn't for them, he wouldn't even be in Escape the Fate. Also, he technically was never in Get Scared other than handling a substitute position for a while. Remove the Motionless in White link if it bothers you that much • GunMetal Angel 23:16, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm true, i have an idea redirected Thomas Bell from the side box to motionless in white and the one at the bottom to get scared. Ericdeaththe2nd — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.152.7.28 (talk) 15:53, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

ETF is screamo? or not?, let's put an end to this

There's been a great persistence of Sock Puppet User talk:CaptainSpaulding1978 put Screamo in the genre, and for me etf is not and never was Screamo. I'm tired of users saucepan like him persists in putting screamo in the genres. Etf is not screamo, is post-hardcore, hard rock. Those in that genres of her sources, http://www.allmusic.com/album/theres-no-sympathy-for-the-dead-r832805/review, http://www.allmusic.com/artist/escape-the-fate-p782945/biography, is surely placed by someone who does not know right styles of music, and begins to be labeled, putting screamo in the genres, Allmusic is not a good site as a source, (for me). And these sources when her put, are of older releases of 2005, 2006. The right would be find a source of some most recent releases, on a experienced music site, and see if her find something saying that the etf is screamo. In fine, guys ETF is screamo? or not?, let's put an end to this. Edu Mabbitt (talk) 06:14, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Screamo has emotional lyrics like this band does. Post hardcore rooted from hardcore bands. And even the sources have been on the list of screamo bands page and were sourced reliably and allmusic is considered a frequently used and reliable source — Preceding unsigned comment added by CaptainSpaulding1978 (talk • contribs) 17:40, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi, I'm a good genre expert, Escape the Fate use to be Screamo in there Self-titled EP album, but no unfortunately they are not although Escape the Fate are 'emo' (well they were from The self titled EP to Dying is your latest fashion) and 'post-hardcore' which builds up Screamo, so in-conclusion I'd say to put Screamo up but have it said (early) next to it as well as Emo (early) Ericdeaththe2nd (talk) 18:28, 14 October 2012 (UTC)ericdeaththe2nd

This has already been discussed, as it was with Falling in Reverse. They are not screamo, they are Post-Hardcore. They leaned more towards Metalcore after This War is Ours, but that's my personal insight. The fact of the matter is that they were never screamo (or emo for that matter), therefore screamo should not be added as there is no substantial source indicating it as such (allmusic doesn't count unless it SPECIFICALLY states in the article that it is screamo and elaborates). This topic has been discussed to death, and the consensus is the same every time. Any more discussions for screamo will be deleted or added to a previous section. TJD2 (talk) 07:07, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm totally agree with TJD2 no longer discuss what is decided, this discussion is closed, please do not put more posts in that section. Edu Mabbitt (talk) 21:43, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

I disagree with 'they leaned more to metalcore after this war is ours' I think thats when they stopped being metalcore, and more 'Alternative metal'. And they were 'Screamo' in Escape the Fate (demo album) but that was the only time. 90.214.27.178 (talk) 20:38, 20 October 2012 (UTC)Ericdeaththe2nd

I found sources for emo/screamo but also for post hardcore/metalcore/hard rock. I added their reffered genres to the st5yle influencews section replacing unsourced genres, however, i won't change the genre since there is no consensus. and just cause you disagree with a sourced genre doesn't make it NOT that genre, however, I'd definitely keep the genre field the same as before because it's discussed.

Ihy34 (talk) 01:02, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Ungrateful official title for album 4--at what point can we make an article for it?

Ungrateful is officially the name of the Album, and a date has been produced. They've played some new songs live (You're Insane, Live Fast Die Beautiful, and of course Ungrateful). They've dropped the first single from the album. Is it time Ungrateful got it's own article?

--Raktoner (talk) 17:56, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

add

I think adding emo is okay, since it won't create conflict and has a consensus available. I have plenty sources.


Ihy34 (talk) 01:49, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Genres: Post-hardcore, metalcore, hard rock, alternative metal. There's no need to find a source for each genre. I've found one for all of them.

That's the source: http://stevenieca.com/tag/escape-the-fate/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by ETFFAN123 (talk • contribs) 19:43, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Genre tags on websites are NOT reliable. Because random tags get added all the time. However reviews are. But that site is a download site and thus is NOT reliable.

Ihy34 (talk) 01:51, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Escape the Fate

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Escape the Fate's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "epitaph":

  • From Falling in Reverse: "Falling In Reverse Announces Headlining Fall Tour". Epitaph. August 27th 2012. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  • From This War Is Ours: "Escape the Fate Recording New Album". Epitaph Records. Retrieved 26 April 2011. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 14:55, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

genre

Alternative metal was not sourced but the one who put a source for the genre just put the list of genres of tags put on the band on a download free website which is unreliable and tags aren't reliable either. So I removed it and its NOT reliably sourced. Post-hardcore, hard rock, metalcore as well are sourced. Screamo is sourced but that genre is disagreed by many and therefore shouldn't be added. I think their early stuff was standard emo. But I found sources for emo and it seems people don't have issues with the genre added as it's consensus is available. But I think whoever wants to add alt metal again should get a source.

Ihy34 (talk) 01:56, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

That genre has been here for a long time now, which indicates a consensus among editors that alternative metal is one of the band's genres. Quit inforcing you're POV on this article via you're multiple sock accounts. I call the big one bitey 05:50, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Michael Money

I think it's misleading to say Michael Money was in the band as of 2008 on the chart and on the official member list. Yeah I know the story but he still wasn't official and never contributed anything until 2012.Teresa44 (talk) 00:22, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Band members order

I know they're in order of seniority right now, but don't you guys think it would look more natural if it were in the traditional vocals, guitar, bass, drums order?Teresa44 (talk) 15:23, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Or in alphabetical order by family name. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:51, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 February 2014

Associated Acts: LoveHateHero 74.62.207.178 (talk) 21:21, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

 Not done Unless you have a source that supports the documented nature of an association, it doesn't make sense to add it. The article already states "On January 11, 2011, the band performed live in "Tues Show" (Fuel.tv) the song "Issues" and "Gorgeous Nightmare" with the special collaboration of Kevin Thrasher (of Lovehatehero)" but nothing else makes an association. The documentation states,:
This field can include, for example, any of the following:
  • Other acts with which this act has collaborated on multiple occasions, or on an album, or toured with as a single collaboration act playing together
  • Groups which have spun off from this group
  • A group from which this group has spun off
The following uses of this field should be avoided:
  • Association of groups with members' solo careers
  • Groups with only one member in common
  • Association of producers, managers, etc. (who are themselves acts) with other acts (unless the act essentially belongs to the producer, as in the case of a studio orchestra formed by and working exclusively with a producer)
  • One-time collaboration for a single, or on a single song
  • Groups that are merely similar
So unless I'm missing something, it's not an association and this is discussed above several times. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:44, 25 February 2014 (UTC)


Genre

I don't understand why metalcore, and Heavy metal are not in the info-box. All of their albums except for the first one are labeled as metalcore, and at least two of them are labeled heavy metal. I can easily find sources for those two if you want. I'm adding those two, but you're welcome to discuss about it. The other genres are fine. - BrainPower3 (talk) 07:58, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Max Green leaves again

Yep... unless anyone has a problem I'll change the band members section immediately. http://www.altpress.com/news/entry/i_cant_help_feeling_unfulfilled_at_the_end_of_the_day..._bassist_max_green — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beachdude42 (talk • contribs) 02:01, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Touring members

Walter Görlitz and Teresa44 disagree with me and I.Wont.Give.In on whether or not the band's former and current touring musicians should be included on the timeline, arguing that they are not actual members. However, in my opinion, if they are appropriately marked as touring musicians, including them can provide useful information to the reader in a simple way. Compare the timeline with touring musicians and without touring musicians; the first version clearly shows who appeared on guitar and bass at live shows in the absence of an official member before/after the respective members joined/left. What disadvantages does the first version have compared to the second version? What is the downside of including touring musicians (who are marked as such) on a timeline?--MASHAUNIX 15:30, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I agree, as plenty of other bands feature these members such as Falling In Reverse, My Chemical Romance, Dance Gavin Dance, Reggie and the Full Effect, Yellowcard and many others. I feel like they should be added. I.Wont.Give.In (talk) 17:39, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Oh and on the previous issue of what constitutes a touring member, Sandler and Thomson filled in briefly for a few shows. Unlike the other touring members like Davey Richmond, Alex Torres and Tyler Burgess who appeared over the course of multiple shows and were fulltime touring members of the band. I.Wont.Give.In (talk) 17:42, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Check out "mashainix" talk page for some examples of his POV and deceptive editing techniques as well as straight up tall tales to know who you are dealing with. Very helpful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mashaunix CombatMarshmallow (talk) 22:36, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
The fact that other stuff exists is no reason that they should be included here or anywhere. They're not actual members. They're paid musicians who tour and should be listed, with sources, in the members section, but not in the timeline. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:48, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
But why? You gave no actual argument for why it is worse for the article if they are included than if they are not.--MASHAUNIX 12:44, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
I did, but I think I may have understated it. They are paid musicians, not members of the band. I have seen some editors recently adding session musicians to the timeline. Members are a special class of musician. Hired musicians are not on the same level. Walter Görlitz (talk) 13:30, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
He also isn't giving you an "argument" he's giving you a Reason. He's also trying to send someone a message like "escape the fate" Thinks someone lives in New jersey and will periodically edit "parkway drive" come one down "mashaunix" anytime you have enough nerve.CombatMarshmallow (talk) 14:42, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
So what? There is no guideline that states the timeline is for members only. If including touring and session musicians on it shows readers in a simple way how they have replaced official members on various instruments at various times, what is the downside of doing so, so long as they are clearly tagged as what they are?--MASHAUNIX 16:42, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
"Whats the downside". he likes to use that, Alot. "Hired musicians are not on the same level." Agreed with Walter Görlitz.CombatMarshmallow (talk) 17:10, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
There's also no guideline that states 1) that a timeline should be present, so let's remove it completely and 2) that it should not contain touring members at all, so why should we include them? There's also no guideline for not including studio musicians, production staff, A&R personnel, managers, roadies or even significant others. What we have is imminent reason. We don't include everyone in the member's timeline, only band members. We don't include hired musicians or others related to the band, only members. We also have no proof that the supposed "touring members" were considered as "members" by anyone. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:22, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
The difference is, a production staff member or manager does not replace an official member on guitar, whereas a touring musician can. The fact that bands tend to do without official members when their instruments are covered by touring/session musicians is, in my opinion, enough rationale for why including these musicians on the timeline can be beneficial to the article and in the interest of providing the reader with relevant information effectively. If they are indicated to be what they are (touring or studio musicians, rather than official members, who are the main thing featured on the timeline), why is it not in line with "imminent reason" to include them? Unless there is a large number of them, they don't distract from other info featured on the timeline, and their presence quickly answers a reader asking themselves who played drums at a band's show in 2012, or who is recording the keyboards for their newest album.--MASHAUNIX 03:45, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Lead guitar

I think this article is pretty inaccurate when it comes to who played lead and rhythm guitar. It states Monte Money played lead guitar while Omar Espinosa was still in the band; however, this is false. Money only took over Espinosa's role as the lead guitarist, after Espinosa left the band. You can see earlier live performance of Escape the Fate where you can clearly see Espinosa playing lead guitar (link here). --118.38.246.21 (talk) 15:09, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

That's not clear enough. In this case viewers must know who the individual performers are. Find a written source or a video that provides both names and roles. Until then, what would you like to do? Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:32, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
Hm, yes, you're right. But from a fan speculation can you also see that Espinosa plays lead guitar? Such as, playing the main melody line during the chorus and the solo. Just curious how this article was constructed to speculate that Money was the lead guitarist. Is there a source that states so? --118.38.246.21 (talk) 23:06, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

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You need to provide more info on what to fix. Please don't needlessly use the needhelp parameter. The parameter is for when users can't fix problems themselves.—cyberpowerChat:Online 13:19, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

@Cyberpower678: The instructions are terrible and need to be corrected. "Helped" does not indicate that the link has been checked and is working. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:06, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

You're not marking them as checked at all. That resulted in an impossible to maintain category. If you find something wrong, use the links provided above to fix it. It's super easy. The helpneeded parameter calls for help.—cyberpowerChat:Limited Access 18:09, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
@Cyberpower678: I have been doing a lot of different things, all with the same results. If the helpneeded is a call for help, why are we filling it in at all and not using the checked parameter? Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:48, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
In figuring out a way to make IABot more reliable, more easily, the source check template was serving nothing but telling other users that the bot did its job correctly. This has amounted to a 350k page backlog and was humanly impossible to maintain, so the checked parameter has been removed entirely, and instead instructions are given above on how to fix errors that were found. Nothing more is needed after that, and if the user needs help, they use the needhelp parameter to summon me, or other experienced users, to help use the interface.—cyberpowerChat:Limited Access 18:53, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
@Cyberpower678: If you look at the documentation at {{sourcecheck}} it doesn't show anything to indicate "I have checked the archives and it's working". The only thing close to this is a variant of the old: {{Sourcecheck|checked=true|needhelp=helped}}, but that results in a warning. So you can understand the confusion. I'm debating ignoring the bot's activity until something more clear can be added at the documentation. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:02, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
Ooooohhh, I thought you were talking about what the template was outputting. Not the green documentation found over at the template. I can see what you're saying now. To clarify, the template isn't being used to say, "Yes I checked the bot's edit", but rather to provide tools that will help users to fix the erroneous in an easy manner so the bot doesn't make the same errors on other pages. What you see in the documentation is the template throwing the error for use cases, to help instruct the user that the template has been repurposed.—cyberpowerChat:Limited Access 19:10, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
Sorry for the confusion. We (maybe it's just me) need (needs) a simple green status in the documentation. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:20, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
Sadly, now I'm confused. :-( Are you asking for the return of the "checked" parameter? It doesn't help the bot in any way.—cyberpowerChat:Limited Access 19:23, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
Just one clear instruction. Possibly Sourcecheck|needhelp=helped or something similar? Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:16, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
I can bring back the checked parameter if you wish to mark edits as checked, but to clear up confusion, needhelp does not mark an edit as checked but calls for help from experienced users when having trouble using the interface to resolve issues.—cyberpowerChat:Offline 00:54, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
If that's the best option. There's no parameter to say "I have checked this" as needhelp=helped doesn't say that. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:57, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
There's does seem to be a growing consensus to bring it back. I didn't anticipate it's removal would cause so much confusion and problems. I'll restore it but I can't right now as I'm on a phone and editing a template from a phone spell so disaster.—cyberpowerChat:Offline 01:03, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
@Walter Görlitz: I have updated the template. Is that better?—cyberpowerChat:Online 17:20, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

@Cyberpower: Looks good. Checked he documentation and it makes more sense now too. Thanks for the effort on this. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:03, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

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@Walter Görlitz: I added the checked parameter back, you don't need to be setting the needhelp parameter to helped. In the cases where the checked parameter, just add |checked=true to the template to set it.—CYBERPOWER (Happy 2017) 17:28, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

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  1. ^ a b Cite error: The named reference allmusic was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  2. ^ Cite error: The named reference http://www.gigwise.com/article.php?contentid=19541 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  3. ^ Cite error: The named reference http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/escape_the_fate was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  4. ^ Cite error: The named reference http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/reviews/compact_discs/escape_the_fate/escape_the_fate/index.html was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
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