Talk:Eritrea/Archive 2

History

I believe that the pre-colonial history goes into far too much depth about D'mt and that instead it should be more brief because if someone wants information on it they should just go to the page about that subject. Merhawie 20:55, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Good Status

For this article to become featured or indeed become a "Good Article", it needs to have a longer and more interesting lead. The Canada article has a lovely lead. See if it can be applied in some way to Eritrea. --Jaw101ie 21:40, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Lead section dispute

What has done here is show you part of the argument. The following is the section That I recommend for the lead:

Eritrea is a country in northern East Africa. The name is derived from the Latin word for Red Sea, Mare Erythraeum. The country is bordered by Sudan in the west, Ethiopia in the south and Djibouti in the southeast. The east and northeast of the country have an extensive coastline with the Red Sea across which lie Saudi Arabia and Yemen. The Dahlak Archipelago and several of the Hanish Islands are part of Eritrea. Eritrea was consolidated into a colony by the Italian government on January 1, 1890. Eritrea gained its independence from Ethiopia after a thirty-year war which lasted from 1961 to 1991.

Eritrea is officially a parliamentary democracy consisting of six regions, but functions as a single-party state. Eritrea is a multilingual and multicultural country with two dominant religions and nine nationalities, each speaking a different language. The country has no official language, but it has three working languages: Tigrinya, Arabic, and English. A fourth language, Italian, is sometimes used commercially.

Now the following is what another user has argued would be better:

Eritrea is a country in northern East Africa. The name is derived from the Latin word for Red Sea, Mare Erythraeum. The country is bordered by Sudan in the west, Ethiopia in the south and Djibouti in the southeast. The east and northeast of the country have an extensive coastline with the Red Sea across which lie Saudi Arabia and Yemen. The Dahlak Archipelago and several of the Hanish Islands are part of Eritrea. It has long been an intersection between the civilizations of North Africa, the Middle East and Sub-Saharan Africa due to its nearness to the Red Sea. The area now called Eritrea has played an important role in the the region we now know as Ethiopia. As an enclave on the coast of the Red Sea coast, a major trade route since ancient times, Eritrea has long been a strategic location for much of the region, a hub for exports of gold, ivory, civet musk and slaves, and imports of textiles and other manufactured goods. The coastal area was visited shortly before the Christian era by Ptolemaic naval expeditions, which came in quest of elephants, known as "the tanks of the ancient world".

Eritrea was consolidated into a colony by the Italian government on January 1, 1890. Contemporary Eritrea gained its independence from Ethiopia after a thirty-year war which lasted from 1961 to 1991. Eritrea is officially a parliamentary democracy consisting of six regions, but functions as a single-party state. Eritrea is a multilingual and multicultural country with two dominant religions and nine nationalities, each speaking a different language. The country has no official language, but it has three working languages: Tigrinya, Arabic, and English. A fourth language, Italian, is sometimes used commercially.

Now I am of the opinion that his alteration (which I have italicized) does not belong in the lead section. If any part of it did it would only be the first sentence, but I believe the contribution is too specific historically speaking, its talks about the effect Eritrea on Ethiopia even before Eritrea existed as a country, and if anything only belongs in the history section of the page. Your input would be greatly appreciated. 00:20, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

The italicized section IS historical, in my opinion, and does not bear sufficiently on the PRESENT situation and realities of Eritrea to merit a place in the lead paragraph. If Eritrea today is a significant locus of transshipment for Ethiopia, more-so than for other areas, that might qualify for inclusion, but not "pre-Christian-era" circumstances.--Joe 20:01, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Joe. If the lead paragraph was filled with numerous historical facts outside the realm of present day Eritrea, the result would be a bloated and unfocused summary. The reader would navigate through potentially irrelevant data. While including data that is true and relevant to the historical aspect of Eritrea is wonderful, this could waste the reader's time. Jloo 19:57, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with User:Cluckbang. Eritrea during the Axum time, which you are referring to, was not known as Eritrea.You are delving too much into detail that we are not sure of.Asmarina

You all say that Eritrea has no official language, but the quoted source says that "Arabic, English, and Tigrinya are the three official languages in Eritrea".Ehudzel 16:21, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Indeed the source does show that, however, there is no official language in Eritrea. Should the source be removed? --Merhawie 22:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Its been several years, and to be honest I had mostly forgotten about this, but it needs to be corrected. There are no official languages in Eritrea. Officially all languages are co-equal, although three are typically used. None has statutory or any other official recognition. Merhawie (talk) 01:55, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Motto

Is anyone able to provide a reference for the motto Never kneel down? Though I've seen it mentioned in several places, I couldn't find an official source. Pruneau^talk 23:58, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure if there is indeed and official motto. During the revolution the motto of the EPLF was "Victory to the Masses" but also commonly said was "Never kneel down!" Merhawie 17:07, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually I found a couple of sources for "Never kneel down" Merhawie 18:49, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

On the coins, there is the motto Liberty, Equality, Justice. ([1]) That seems more official to me than the references we found so far. Pruneau^talk 20:34, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

It seems possible but to be honest, I have never really heard that one used, while in written sources you read "Never Kneel Down" constantly. Furthermore I wouldn't say that there is a de jure National motto, instead "Never Kneel Down" is a sort of de facto National motto. --Merhawie 21:32, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

It hardly seems reasonable to say that Never kneel down is used constantly, given that we had trouble finding a reference, let alone anything remotely official. I'm starting to think that we shouldn't list a motto at all for Eritrea. Pruneau^talk 09:54, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

That would seem reasonable because I am pretty sure that in all the reading about Eritrea that I have done Never Kneel Down was the motto of the EPLF, which is not necessarily the Government of Eritrea. --Merhawie 13:46, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

During my time in Eritrea, I saw 'Never Kneel Down' mainly used in graffiti. 'Awet Nahefash' (Victory To The Masses) is used commonly in all official documentation, even at the end of school reports, preferably postpended by one or more exclamation marks.

Images

I think that we have too many images in the History section and it should be pruned. We have three images in one section, at least one, maybe two need to be removed. Merhawie 17:07, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Eritrea rv

You have reverted what seems to be referenced fact. I have no problem with you working on the Eritrea page but you have reverted what has been documented (mind you I haven't checked it out for sure, I don't have the time right now) and also reverted changes to the structure of the document. Also you have also reverted without letting us know which version your reverted to. Just put the discussion up on the talk page. --Merhawie 17:47, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't mind some of the additions, but when all in concert without discussion, and with major formatting issues as a result, reverting was the easiest way. The anonymous user should explain his major changes on the talk page first before controversial changes (e.g. the use of the outdated "Abyssinia," associating the Gash group only with the Nilo-Saharan speaking populations (an association Rodolfo Fattovich does not make), moving the history section to the end, etc. Moreover, some of the information he included was getting too specific for the history section and belongs in the History of Eritrea article. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 17:56, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response, also you still have not stated which version you reverted to, just so that we know. Thank you! --Merhawie 18:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I reverted to this version, which is identical to the versions I reverted to earlier, and the same version reverted to by [User:MER-C|MER-C]] and Gyrofrog. I won't be able to respond as quickly usually due to a heavy workload so if I'm late in future responses, please excuse me. I'm willing to incorporate some of the changes added by the anon, but not all in concert. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 18:05, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I have not removed any referenced material this time (the Damot stuff which if I can recall even you commented on how it is superfluous). On the other hand you did remove referenced material when you removed the "prehistory" part of Eritrea. So I ask for a little balance. Reading the previous Eritrea page, especially the history part, it read something like :Eritrea in relation to Ethiopia, and Ethiopia too and especially Ethiopia and including Ethiopia...traditionally Ethiopian. This is obviously because the chief contributor to the Eritrea page is an Ethiopian and as such has a political interest to over-emphasize Eritrea's historical "Ethiopianness" and downplay the existence of any pre-colonial separate identity that contradicts the concept of any sort of an "Ethiopian" Empire. It is not a NPOV and as an Eritrean I find it the most distasteful form of weaseldom. It would be in the interest of Eritreans as well as those interested in Eritrea to be able to unpeel the labels "Eritrea" (and "Ethiopia" if you must) to understand what lies at the bottom of it all. I do not feel emphasizing Ethiopia to the extent as was done so far is constructive. It should be noted that most of the material in the medeival history section (written by Yom and other Ethiopian contributors) article is not referenced material. Referenced material also does not always spell relevance or accuracy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeragito (talk • contribs) 20:29, 2 October 2006‎

Eritrea article history section

I have not removed any referenced material this time (the Damot stuff which if I can recall even you commented on how it is superfluous). On the other hand you did remove referenced material when you removed the "prehistory" part of Eritrea. So I ask for a little balance. Reading the previous Eritrea page, especially the history part, it read something like :Eritrea in relation to Ethiopia, and Ethiopia too and especially Ethiopia and including Ethiopia...This is obviously because the chief contributor to the Eritrea page is an Ethiopian and as such has a political interest to over-emphasize Eritrea's historical "Ethiopianness" and downplay the existence of any pre-colonial separate identity that contradicts the concept of any sort of an "Ethiopian" Empire. It is not a NPOV and as an Eritrean I find it the most distasteful form of weaseldom. It would be in the interest of Eritreans as well as those interested in Eritrea to be able to unpeel the labels "Eritrea" (and "Ethiopia" if you must) to understand what lies at the bottom of it all. I do not feel emphasizing Ethiopia to the extent as was done so far is constructive. It should be noted that most of the material in the history section (written by Yom and other Ethiopian conributors) article is not referenced material. Referenced material also does not always spell relevance.

Also: the history section is what needs to be summarized most of all. I also don't see a problem with NOT starting with the history section, especially if it is going to be this long. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeragito (talk • contribs) 20:34, 2 October 2006‎

Actually all of the material I have added have references, it's just that I have at times left out putting the references on the page. You call my edits POV and engaging in weaseldom, but I have simply stated the political association of Eritrea in the past: western lands and very far north not much tied to Ethiopia; highlands and coast tied to Ethiopia until 1557, describing the provinces there; then coast not tied; southern coast loosely tied from 17th century. You have made POV edits, however, with clear claims of division by the Mareb river that simply did not exist. No province in the region has ever had the Mareb river as its boundary (Mereb Mellash included Shire, for example), so you cannot claim that it was a "natural colonial border," which is obviously your POV used to interpret the data at hand. You claim about my lack of references, but your only two are one for the Hominid skull found in Eritrea, and for the Gash Group (which Fattovich does not ascribe to any particular people). I can see that some of your information is correct anyway (e.g. the existence of civilization around Asmera in the 9th c. BC, part of the Tihama Cultural Complex stretching from the Tihama in Yemen to western and Southeastern Tigray in Ethiopia), but other parts are plain wrong (Hatshepsut did not travel personally to Punt, she sent an expedition, and that was in the 15th century BC, not 2500 BC; the Beja were not the head of states in central Eritrea; the Belew are interpreted differently by different historians, but they were either Christianized Beja governors of the Zagwe dynasty or simply Arabized Beja rulers in the Sudan and Western Eritrea, depending on whom you ask, and "Medri Bahri" is a later term, not dating to the Zagwe dynasty, but coming in the late medieval period; the Bahr Negash areas always included Shire; the Ummayads only controlled Dahlak for about 100 some years from 702 before it was again part of Aksum in the 9th century, as referenced by al-Ya'qubi; etc., etc.) Let us discuss this issue instead of using insults. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:18, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Is there any reason why you leave references out? Unless you have better arguments to back your assertions, it is safe to say that your gratuitous insertion of "Ethiopia" into the Eritrea page at large are based on your POV or should I just say, the 'Ethiopian' POV. As for your references, they are no less devoid of your or someone elses concurring POV, especially those that link to other wikipedia pages authored by other Ethiopian contributors or even by yourself. Are these the references you are omitting? That is indeed good judgement. Mareb Mellash means "Beyond Mareb" by the way, not "Around Mareb" or "Close to Mareb". Similarly Bahr Negash means Sea King(dom) not Sea province governor(ate). I never stated that Hatshepsut went on an expedition to Punt. As for the date, thank you indeed for the correction. If I am not mistaken, the reference to Hatshepsut was allready there (including the date). My edit was mainly an omission of the gratuitous mention of "Ethiopia" once more, to replace it with something that has a little more relevance to the "Eritrea" page, a mention of the expedition having gone along and reached the southern west coast of the Red Sea. Regarding yout statements on the Beja, you said it yourself, they are based on the POV of which "historian" you consult. You certainly do not seem to have consulted Al-Yaqubi on that one. The Dahlak can not have remained Axumite for very long in the 9th century because Axum was destroyed in the 10th century. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.186.212.253 (talk • contribs) 05:07, 5 October 2006‎

I don't have access to the references right now and didn't at that time; that's why I left the references out. What you perceive to be an Ethiopian POV is simply a historian's POV,(Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

An Ethiopian 'historians' POV:-)

"Mereb Mellash" is Tigrinya, not Amharic (see Patrick Giles' review of Tom Killion's "Historical dictionary of Eritrea")(Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Really? Do you also ask ferenji's what your name is?

First: 'There has never been a country or state known as "Abyssinia."'...then: '"Abissinia (with the "y" coming from "abyss"), which was taken from the Arabic name from Ethiopia (Bilad al-Habash/Bilad al-Ahbush)"'.(Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Which you yourself in other places have claimed has a "native" etymology for (semitic root 'HBST' bla bla bla)...The point is a) you contradict yourself a lot, b) your argument about using the 'native word' for the country is a giant POV topped with absolute rubbish, c) Ethiopians call themselves 'Habesha' and d) you don't need to use the native name otherwise no one will be able to pronounce China or Albania or half of the world's nations..

The Beja were "subordinates of the Zagwe, which is what Taddesse Tamrat seems to be proposing"...(Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Let me guess Taddesse Tamrat is an "Ethiopian historian" too:):) You follow this with a long sleepy rant decked full with "seems to be...I am guessing...err brbrbrbr" which you could come back to us when you actually know something of value (which is not related to Ethiopia):)

This discussion is interesting. I am NOT Ethiopian or Eritrean, but it was my understanding that Eritrea had formed as a result of Italian intervention against the Kingdom of Aksum (Ethiopia). To come here and see so much discussion of Eritrea as a nation with thousands of years of independent history blows me away. History books, teachers, professors, all referred to Eritrea as a nation state formed by the remnants of Italian colonialism in Ethiopia. Anyway, the point is I am utterly confused about who or what to believe in this situation. Thanks for the good reading though. Rafajs77 (talk) 22:29, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

pronunciation

Is it e-RIT-tree-ah or e-rit-TRAY-ah? I've heard both, this article should clarify this. EamonnPKeane 17:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Usually the latter, but I have heard the first pretty often as well. Neither are the native pronounciation, however, which is "értra." — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 20:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Yom is on the right track. Iritrea (something like that anyway) is also common and comes from the Arabic pronunciation. --Merhawie 21:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Current border situation

What is the current border situation? We need to add a "current events flag" there as info is changing --or we hope the situation is changing.--Halaqah 21:27, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Map

The article references the town of Badme as a source of ongoing conflict yet it is not on the map provided. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.144.29.208 (talk • contribs) 15:35, 26 December 2006‎

it doesn't appear to be on this otherwise decent looking map either EdwardLane (talk) 22:17, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Somalia

I see there is nothing about their supposed support of the civil war in Somalia, there have got to be news reports supporting this? Mathmo ^Talk 06:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

There appears to be numerous POV violations, although cited properly within the history section in a lengthy paragraph at the end of the Independence section. This area needs to be looked into and cleaned up and the language written in a more neutral stance. --207.114.206.48 (talk) 10:15, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Eritrean government websites

Does the Eritrean government have an official website? Is there an Eritrean central bureau of statistics or some equivalent agency? If so, does it have a website? Itayb 10:48, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

The Government of Eritrea does not have a central website for statistical information. The only official Government websites are those of the Ministry of Information and the Ministry of Education, www.shabait.com and www.erimoe.gov.er respectively. Merhawie 21:20, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Too bad. By the way, why do you think the Ministry of Information is set in a *.com domain? What does this "shabait" mean? Itayb 21:33, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Doing a trace...the IP of Shabait.com shows that it is hosted in the United States while the MoE is hosted in Eritrea. Shabait (I believe) is the location of the first broadcast of Radio Dimtsi Hafash (Voice of the Broad Masses) of Eritrea by the Eritrean People's Liberation Front during the Eritrean War of Independence. Merhawie 21:37, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Interesting research. Itayb 15:00, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Italian

The italian language in not just a minority language left by colonial times. There is a big school "scuola italiana di asmara" under the direct control of italian governament with more than 1500 students (http://81.174.35.51/lombardinelmondo/portal/nazioni/AsiaAfrica/articoli/storiaemigrazione/eritrea/document_view).

There is also the "italian house" and there are a lot of misionaries.

Italian language is spoken much —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.11.58.71 (talk) 01:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC).

Italian really is a minority language and spoken almost exclusively in Asmara. However, to be equitable if you could provide a source from perhaps a source akin to the UN or a Governmental agency or something of the sort that would make the argument more credible. Thank you, and we look forward to further contributions. --Merhawie 02:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Asmara itself is 10% of the population... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Udonknome (talk • contribs) 07:57, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

I just can say that i have spend a month in Asmara a couple of years ago, and i have only speak italian with local population.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.6.25.96 (talk • contribs) 00:34, March 5, 2007 (UTC).

I know of course that there remain a population that speaks a measure of Italian, and of course there remains the Italian international school. This however is not an "official" working language and no official documentation is in Italian. Furthermore, when one ventures beyond Asmara, and to a certain extent Massawa, the population that can understand Italian quickly drops to nearly 0. --Merhawie 01:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with user Merhawie's observations. Though anecdotal, my own observations are that Italian is still spoken by older Eritreans, but that over time native knowledge is likely to become minimal. The same situation applies somewhat to Amharic as there are currently several generations who learnt Amharic at school before the revolution. However, Amharic will of course continue to be spoken to some extent, due to the country's close cultural affinity with Ethiopia. Finally, although Italian may not be as widely spoken among Eritreans in future, the language has already left its mark on local languages, with a large body of words bequeathed, not least a ridiculous number of words for coffee.

Dulles

John Foster Dulles was not the Secretary of State in 1952, a year when Harry Truman was still president, and Dean Acheson was his Secretary of State. He was the foreign policy advisor of Eisenhower, I guess, but not yet Secretary of State. So was the statement made when he was secretary of state (in which case not 1952), or was it made before he became secretary of state? john k 14:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

March 2007

Hi guys. This article feels a little lopsided. There is some mention, but actually very little about human rights abuses and acts of state terrorism. Check Amnesty's Eritrea News page for some quick information http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/eritrea/news.do

Compulsory national service for all men between 18 and 40 for an indefinite time ought to be mentioned, since their labour constitutes a major factor in the Eritrean economy now.

Also, an article about the Eritrean Diaspora feels necessary, again because that is where a lot of Eritrean's cashflow originates.

Secret prisons, detention of relatives to people who fled national service, imprisonment of church leaders, etc. I saw in the history of this article that external links to Non-Governmental groups was deleted. Any particular reason for that? I didn't check the links, but some grassroots backup would do this article some good. It's Wikipedia, supposed to be grassroots, innit. Thanks A—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Anansie (talk • contribs) 09:38, 11 March 2007 (UTC).

I agree that there should be an addition about the Eritrean Diaspora, however, this should be done not because of their economic significance, but because of their significant numbers in the population. As to the remainder of your inquiry, the Eritrea page is not specifically about the governance of Eritrea and that is where such an addition should be placed. If you will notice, much of what is on the Eritrea page is not about governance. Furthermore, when added it will have to be mentioned as "alleged" because technically it is all speculation at this point. --Merhawie 13:31, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

Article is very well written, and close to GA status. However, it does not pass due to lack of citations. Most notably, there are quite a few 'citation needed' tags at various places in the article. These should be resolved prior to GA status. There are also several sections that are unreferenced: 'administrative divisions', 'politics and government' (only has one citation, to the quote), 'geography', 'languages', 'culture'.

I would recommend combining 'administrative regions' with the 'politics and government' section, since these are related to the government. The 'geography' section should be promoted in the article, probably should fall just after 'history'. There's also no information on the climate in this section, either.

The 'history' section looks very complete and well-written, though is missing citations in several key areas.

Editors might want to review some articles on countries that are already good articles; Egypt might be a good example of another African nation. Cheers! Dr. Cash 01:13, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

National Scout Association of Eritrea

Can someone who speaks Tigrinya render "National Scout Association of Eritrea" and "Be Prepared", the Scout Motto, into Tigrinya? Thanks! Chris 14:34, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Is it a one party state?

BBC says it is:

• Eritrea is a one-party state, with the ruling People's Front for Democracy and Justice the only party allowed to operate. (BBC Country Profiles)

Wikipedia uses Eritrea as an example of a single-party state (q.v.), so if we decide here that it is not (by virtue of its charter?), then shouldn't we remove Eritrea from that list of examples, to be consistent? --Uncle Ed 13:53, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

We can say it "The west considers it a single-party state while it identifies itself as without political parties." Or something to that effect. As for the BBC listing it as such in its country profile, I would hope that you are only using that as a weather vane because BBC information is rife with half-truths (as most media outlets are). --Merhawie 15:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with that statement, if we present something to that effect, it will be a good way to take both the theoretical and practical aspects of the country's politics into view. Rucha 19:39, 18 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rucha58 (talk • contribs)

Environment

I've just added a main article section on Environment. This was mainly to to add the stuff on Eritrean elephants. In doing so I also moved the sentences on the coastal environment zone from the Geography section into this section, as it seemed approprirate to the sub-heading. --Iacobus 04:10, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Expanded history section with colonial details

I've just expanded the history section with details about the colonial regimes and subtitles. I hope this is good and clear for all.

Michael Palomino, 9th October 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.74.58.240 (talk) 09:51, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Requests

Could someone explain to me why it seems that this page is trying to make it look like Eritrea is somehow More Muslim than Christian. There are many istances of this and i have tried to fix it due to the image being produced by the western media to make Eritrea somehow a Muslim State and further by the US to be state sponsor of Terrorism it is imparitive that this remain an equal media to represent the truth rather than a perception of what the reality is! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.128.239.40 (talk) 01:57, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Massawaturkishbuilding.jpg

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Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 07:04, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

questionable information

all of the information in medieval, demograpich and language origin is if not wrong according to most scholars in the various area of expertise it at least debateable —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.224.200.118 (talk) 06:16, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Home Office giving papers for Ethiopian not for Eritrean

the united kindom goverment is refusing the real eritrea and giving permission leave to remain to ethiopian.becouse their pentecostl faith believers. thatt's not true. the real Eritrean is getting refuse couse the lack of inforamtion. but the Ethiopian they studied their case since they start their journey to united kindom. and also alotof Eritrean Muslim get refuse. if u compare with christian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.82.139.5 (talk) 13:19, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Minor correction

corrected Menelik II statement's date from 1989 to 1889 189.102.0.197 (talk) 16:56, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Grammar

Someone please correct the grammatical errors, they make the whole article look highschoolish.

I did just that--I agree that it was needed. Hope you like it. Markjoseph125 (talk) 16:31, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

"Any journalists who criticize the president or his regime are immediately put into prison"

While media censorship is undoubtedly strong in Eritrea, this is obvious hyperbole. Any ideas for a more neutral statement? 121.209.1.24 (talk) 13:46, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

GDP numbers

Currently, 3 out of 4 GDP numbers in top-right box are way wrong. Correct numbers according to the cited source (http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2008/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?sy=2004&ey=2008&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=643&s=NGDPD%2CNGDPDPC%2CPPPGDP%2CPPPPC%2CLP&grp=0&a=&pr.x=45&pr.y=15) are: GDP (PPP) total - $3.622 billion; GDP (PPP) per capita - $747; GDP (nominal) total - $1.316 billion; GDP (nominal) per capita - $271 (all are 2007 estimates) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.190.134.134 (talk) 08:57, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Criticism

Moved from the main article:

In 2008 Reporters Without Borders ranked Eritrea last at number 169, unseating the previous record holder North Korea which had been last every other year of the survey. Reporters Without Borders claims that in Eritrea, private newspapers have been shut down and generally exorcised from the country by the President Isaias Afewerki. Also, any journalists who criticize the president or his regime are immediately put into prison; among the many reporters and writers who have been jailed, four may have died in detention.

The reason I moved it is because most country articles don't have a "criticism" section. Secondly, the criticism is of the government and its policies, not of the country, hence doesn't belong here.Bless sins (talk) 22:54, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Crime in Eritrea

I heard crime is low, but this article has no crime section to reflect this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.11.85.246 (talk) 01:49, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

As an Eritrean i can second that claim, but i think crime is on the rise now 2009 given the economic situation in the country. It can even get worse as the world is brewing new sanctions on the government, which by the way is the only life line left for the people as there are no aid organizations allowed to operate in the country. Its really tragic to see a relatively good spirited and friendly people (that live with religious harmony) subjected into mass poverty and desperation, just to remove some political wrinkles Westerners believe the Horn African region may have. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Streightmind (talk • contribs) 10:31, 1 December 2009‎

Can't speak to street crime, but VOIP fraud is so rampant in Eritrea many digital voice providers blockcalls to this country completley (mine does) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.36.16.12 (talk) 17:54, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

The continued and repeated addition of Italian as an official language

I, personally, have had to revert the addition of Italian at least four times since Nov 2009; which is unfortunate as it is definitely not an official language of Eritrea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eritrea&diff=prev&oldid=323450295 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eritrea&diff=prev&oldid=351827291 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eritrea&diff=prev&oldid=357823995 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eritrea&diff=prev&oldid=370409060

So everyone should keep a constant watch for this type of vandalism as it will happen again. These changes are always made by an anonymous editor; there are not usually given edit summaries; and other ethnic groups are often edited out during these changes. Mesfin (talk) 13:37, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Five times now: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eritrea&diff=next&oldid=372801093 Mesfin (talk) 23:05, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Six: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eritrea&diff=next&oldid=372876318 Mesfin (talk) 12:48, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Seven: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eritrea&diff=prev&oldid=427894280 Mesfin (talk) 11:21, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Eight: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eritrea&diff=prev&oldid=508765131 Mesfin (talk) 11:42, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Geography

The second paragraph of the Geography section begins by stating

"The country is virtually bisected by one of the world's longest mountain ranges..."

Which mountain range is this referring to? Is it really one of the world's longest ranges? Presumably it is not among the top five longest listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mountain_ranges#By_length

This sentence could use some clarification by specifying the mountain range and perhaps dropping use of the phrase "one of the world's longest." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.189.100.26 (talk) 07:58, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I propose selective merging the content of the recently created article Ethnic groups of Eritrea to Eritrea#Demographics, with a redirect. The table at Ethnic groups... would be a useful addition to the Eritrea article. The rest of Ethnic groups... is largely duplicated in the main articles for each specific group. Yunshui 雲水 06:59, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

The main page of a country article doesn't need a large table about anything. At any rate, that one is unsourced. I think that page serves its purpose, which is to summarise the main articles of each group. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 09:47, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

The Ethnic groups of Eritrea page appears to be a content fork; it's also OR, including the table. A merge therefore does seem warranted. However, the Demographics of Eritrea main article seems a better option since it already covers the same material and is sourced. Middayexpress (talk) 20:18, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

What is it a content fork of? Chipmunkdavis (talk) 22:47, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

The Ethnic groups stub is a fork of the Demographics page, so a merge into the Demographics page seems indicated. Middayexpress (talk) 16:35, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

It's not a fork as the topic isn't the same. It's a more specific page. However, the current demographics article could easily take all info in the ethnic groups article, as it's also really small. A merge could therefore work. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 18:27, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I concur. Merge the two articles together. The main article on Eritrea is way too small and needs a lot more information, compared to articles on some of the more prominent countries. Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 06:11, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I agree as well. Someone should execute the merge when they have time. Shadowjams (talk) 06:03, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

President - title?

Once the debate about whether the head of state should be listed as President or President of State is resolved, the result should also be applied to the Politics of Eritrea page. The CIA world fact book lists President: [2]. The Eritrean UN Mission uses President: [3] [4]. The US State Department uses President of the State of Eritrea and Chairman of the Executive Council of the PFDJ: [5] This seems analogous to President of the United States, which we do not abbreviate President of United. What is the case for President of State ? Fanyavizuri (talk) 22:34, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Also should be harmonized: List of heads of state of Eritrea. - Fanyavizuri (talk) 22:11, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

The problem with "List of heads of state of Eritrea" is not the title but the idea. They've had one. It should be renamed President of Eritrea and explain the position. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 01:50, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

We use the official titles here. Chipmunkdavis has it the wrong way around, you have to make an argument against using the official title, not us having to convince you. You claim that "President of State" is redundant, but it is not. The only way it would be redundant is if the title was "President of the State", as in "The State of Eritrea". "President of State", without "the" in it, makes it a distinct title. Fry1989 ^eh? 01:06, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

There's no rule that titles should be official, and no, per editing guidelines the person making the change should support their change. You also must have missed my prima facie in my edit summary, I'm trying to think like a reader that doesn't know any of this. If you can present some good sources that list Eritrean position similar to how we do it and use President of State that would help, as similar to the first comment here usage seems mixed and many places just use President. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 18:54, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

And where did I say it was the rule? I never said that. Wat I said is "we do it here", meaning it is the practice. The head of Malaysia is often called a King, but we use his full title. As for the sources listed above, I wouldn't be surprised one bit if in the past, American sources often used "President" instead of "State President" when talking abotu South Africa, and notice that the CIA factbook calls the head of Malaysia the "King" as well, so that hardly makes them an official source. Fry1989 ^eh? 19:30, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

We don't always do it. The Malaysian King isn't referred to as such nearly as much as the President of Eritrea is called a President. The CIA page on Malaysia calls the head of state the "paramount ruler", with "commonly referred to as the King" following in brackets. The CIA page on Eritrea calls Eritreas leader president, without qualifications. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 19:50, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, in their intro, but when you scroll down to their actual information about the country, at the executive branch section, they call him the "King" followed by a dash and "Sultan", which he is never referred to as far as I am aware. They never even mention "Yang di-Pertuan Agong" anywhere, so they're hardly concerned with accuracy. Fry1989 ^eh? 20:00, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

His position as Sultan is separate from the position of King. The Factbook is meant to be information for US state employees, the CIA chooses information over potentially confusing semantics. It's a good model to follow, and also still accurate. The Yang di-Pertuan Agong can be described as a King. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 20:47, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

You completely missed the point. Fry1989 ^eh? 21:09, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I understand the point, and think the issue may lie with Malaysia rather than Eritrea. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 22:08, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Are you going to try and get Yang di-Pertuan Agong taken down and the infobox for Malaysia to say King from now on? Or what about Germany, their head of government is a Chancellor, even though the office itself translates to the position of a Prime Minister. Go have fun if that is your intent. Fry1989 ^eh? 23:09, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Malaysia is an interesting case. The German Chancellor is usually referred to as the Chancellor, so I don't understand your point there. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 23:20, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

The point there is that except for Germany and Austria, Chanceller is not a common term for a head of government. Fry1989 ^eh? 23:22, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

But a common term for Germany and Austria it is, so following reliable sources we call them Chancellors. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 23:24, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

And in Malaysia it is common to call him the Yang di-Pertuan Agong, what's the difference? You know where I'm going with this. Fry1989 ^eh? 23:26, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't know, because your initial point was that Yang di-Pertuan Agong is used even though it was uncommon. If it's used because it's common, then that supports my position. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 23:28, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

It's uncommon in the English world, but not in Malaysia. You're mincing the two together. Fry1989 ^eh? 23:42, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

It's common in Malay I'm sure, and it may be common in Malaysian English. However, even if it is, this isn't a Malaysian English wikipedia. How does this support your argument? Chipmunkdavis (talk) 23:49, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Because it is the official title and we are using it even though it's not common in English. How hard is that to understand. Fry1989 ^eh? 00:05, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

I disagree we should use it if it is uncommon and potentially confusing. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 00:16, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

It's not confusing, nobody has ever complained about being confused. I'd love to see you try and argue that it's confusing. Fry1989 ^eh? 01:08, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Most sources simply call it President. That's simple and understandable. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 10:06, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

My friends, is there an authoritative source that calls it President of State that hasn't simply copied that phrase from Wikipedia? Happy Thanksgiving, Fanyavizuri (talk) 13:48, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

There are, but there are tons of sources that simply use President as well. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 17:59, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

So lets see, you freely admit that there are sources that "President of State" is the official title, and you oppose it's use because "it could confuse people". Really??? You're gonna have to come up with a better reason than that, if you want me to stop inserting the proper title. Nobody has ever complained from being confused, especially when it links to the article describing it in detail. Fry1989 ^eh? 20:02, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, there are sources. I will admit, or acknowledge, or whatever other word you would like, that these sources are there. I have never denied that. I say instead that it is more common to simply refer to the position as President. If you can just provide a few sources that list Eritrean offices and include the President as President of state, that would be much better. And a page that explains it? The page has about a single line of prose. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 21:34, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't have to, you've already admitted it. And you're the only one here who thinks it's confusing. Fry1989 ^eh? 23:25, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm asking for sources of a certain style, in which a list of governmental positions is presented. Although if you wanted a convincing array of other forms of sources could be convincing. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 23:56, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I second the request made by Chipmunkdavis. It seems that President is more common. Where is the array of sources that do what Chipmunkdavis describes? Peace. Fanyavizuri (talk) 02:05, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

One other thought. Rather than discuss this in the abstract, why not just ask the man himself? Go to Isaias Afewerki's facebook page. He says he is running for the office of "President," that his current position is "President," and that he is "President of the State of ERITREA" (emphasis in the original). The phrase "President of State" does not appear on the (lengthy) page. Does that help? Kind regards, Fanyavizuri (talk) 02:53, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Eritrea a GA?

This article is highly regarded by many WikiProjects, well-written, good refs, and useful pictures. I think it could certainly pass as a Good Article, but please, questions, comments, support or concern? Oakley77 (talk) 03:19, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Far too many unsourced paragraphs at the moment, and even entire unsourced sections. CMD (talk) 23:46, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Inclusion of Pre-colonial history

I personally think pre-colonial dates/states (including Habesh Eyalet) should be listed.Mesfin (talk) 16:40, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

The infobox is not meant to show a list of former states in the area, and is not a historical timeline for the area. It is meant to show the development of the current state. Eritrea did not in any way evolve from any of the former states inserted in that edit. Pre-colonial history is appropriately included, in the history section. The History of Eritrea article needs expansion about these kingdoms. CMD (talk) 16:58, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Most of what is known today as Eritrea existed as Medri Bahri, its a fact and that is why. Eritreans existed as a nation prior to Italian rule under Medri Bahri and were known as a distinct nation and readers need to know that rather than as the stereotypical view of Africans as being savage and anarchist prior to being "civilized" by the Italians. By mentioning this in the timeline it will provide a sense of understanding of the fact that the majority of Eritrea existed as a separate entity under a different name. I am fine with adding the habesh province of Ottomans but believed it might undermine the fact that Habesh did not include the Medri Bahri although they tried to. This is the same with Ethiopia and Abyssinia, both mean the same. Italians called it Eritrea, locals called it Medri Bahri.User:Cluckbang (talk) 16:58, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Again, this isn't a history timeline, and is not meant to include all previous nations in the area. There was no continuity between Medri Bahri and Eritrea. If you want to try and expand understanding of Medri Bahri, I suggest expanding the tiny Medri Bahri article, and History of Eritrea, where it is barely mentioned. CMD (talk) 17:42, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Possible vandalism

Recently Kantouchthis (talk · contribs) removed some content, as seen in this diff. Someone with more knowledge of this page's subject may want to verify that it isn't vandalism. —JmaJeremy^TALK_CONTRIBS 03:30, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Request to protect article

Is it possible to have this article semi or completely locked/protected to avoid vandalism.Cluckbang (talk) 01:25, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Independence

There seems to be a desire to link Eritrean sovereignty to much older kingdoms. However, Eritrea has no political lineage from these. What is now Eritrea was what was taken by the Italians from Ethiopia. It was set up as a state only in 1991 (despite the infobox noting multiple moments of independence), with all state institutions being created from scratch. CMD (talk) 07:14, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Stop Changing facts

I have changed few things that i am sure Ethiopians are trying to add to mislead readers. First of all the capital of D'mt was Matara not yeha, yeha was an independent sabean outpost and spoke sabeans. D'mt was also known as Meder Agaz'yan and spoke geez. Matara was the capital of d'mt this information can be found at official eritrean websites.

Secondly i removed the term "Tigray-Tigrigna" with its link. There is no such thing as tigray tigrigna in eritrean ethnic classification Nor Tigray is recognised as a Tribe nor an ethnic group In eritrean constitution.

Lastly i will be adjusting the Muslim-Christian percentage to the 50/50 Official Government numbers. 36% Muslims in Eritrea??? seriously people you need to keep an eye on trolls who are destroying the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.48.54 (talk) 02:52, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Italian as an official language, redux

Another editor added Italian as an official language to the Infobox (diff), and cited the existing reference to "Multilingualism and Nation Building: Language and Education in Eritrea". That source only says that Italian has had a lasting influence, but is not an official language (not since the British Mandate, anyway). Actually, the same source says "no official status is offered to any one language in order not to marginalise the speakers of other languages," yet the article cites this same source for the official status of Tigrinya, Arabic and English. Meanwhile, the CIA Factbook does specify Tigrinya, Arabic and English (but not Italian) as official languages. I do not know which of these sources is correct, but I don't think that we should cite both of them since they contradict each other. In either case, though, we can safely say that neither source says Italian is (currently or recently) an official language. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:23, 28 February 2013 (UTC)