Talk:Elmhurst School, Croydon

Schools Low‑importance

	Schools portal This article is related to WikiProject Schools, a collaborative effort to write quality articles about schools around the world. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page.SchoolsWikipedia:WikiProject SchoolsTemplate:WikiProject Schoolsschool articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

London

	London portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject London, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of London on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LondonWikipedia:WikiProject LondonTemplate:WikiProject LondonLondon-related articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view.

Nikki at Blvue (talk · contribs) This user has contributed to the article. This user has declared a connection. (Declared by default at User talk:Nikki at Blvue with a change of name from User:Bellevue Education)

On 8 November 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Elmhurst school. The result of the discussion was moved to Elmhurst School, Croydon.

Block evasion[edit]

As per WP:RBI, I reverted this edit] from a person evading their block. Any established editor is welcome to reinstate the edit so long as they take full responsibility for the content. That would likely include providing a reliable citation for the information, though I don't have specific reason to believe the edit was incorrect. --Yamla (talk) 14:27, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Going Co-ed.[edit]

The school has announced it will be accepting girls from 2024. An IP editor changed text on the page today in good faith, in response to this but I have reverted it for now. At the moment the school remains for boys only. From September 2024 it will be co-educational. The page will need to be moved ahead of that. The school is already rebranding and a move to Elmhurst School would appear to be uncontroversial, and need not wait until 2024. I'll start an RM on that now. But until the school is co-ed, we should not say it is. We can, of course, refer to any source that explains it is moving to co-ed. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:50, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 8 November 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Elmhurst School, Croydon. (closed by non-admin page mover) The Night Watch (talk) 15:23, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Elmhurst School for Boys → Elmhurst school – The school has announced it will be accepting girls from September 2024, and their materials re-brand the school simply as Elmhurst. Thus the new title should be Elmhurst school (note MOS:CAPS - school is not part of the name so lower case). This can happen at once as the rebranding has happened, even though the page should not state that the school is co-ed until it is. Note that WP:COMMONNAME is probably already Elmhurst school. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:54, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I think we need proof that Elmhurst school is the common name. I could see it being simply 'Elmhurst' or 'Elmhurst prep'. Would Elmhurst (private school), or something similar, be better? YorkshireExpat (talk) 21:42, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I was actually suggesting that it is just Elmhurst, thus lower case school. Looking around, I see lower case school is actually rare. Moreover the school's domain name is Elmhurst School, as is their Twitter etc. Searching more widely, nearly all book mentions are directories. This led me to wonder about the page's overall notability. It is, after all, only a prep school. However P. G. Wodehouse's A Life in Letters refers to it as Elmhurst School, Croydon. So perhaps Elmhurst School is better. Notability is partially demonstrated by that mention. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 08:09, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I'm not sure I like the lower case 'school'. I can't find any other examples with that in. YorkshireExpat (talk) 18:04, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Elmhurst School, Croydon. The title without the "school" is just branding. Many schools are commonly known without it, but that doesn't mean we use the shortened title. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:58, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support this. YorkshireExpat (talk) 19:18, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Elmhurst School, Croydon. Their website capitalises "School" here, while there are other Elmhurst schools requiring disambiguation, in absence of evidence of a primary topic. This source uses the new name [1], although quite bare to pass WP:NAMECHANGES due to so few sources both on the name and overall, however as the name is directly relevant to its status leading to possible confusion, lean to move. The subject may not be notable, but that should be another discussion. Dank Jae 22:28, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I am happy with Elmhurst School, Croydon too, for reasons above. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 23:07, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move to Co-ed[edit]

Fdeva, here is the talk page. Please see the discussion above. We are aware that the school will be co-ed from September. If you want to say something about it now, it would need to be on the lines of "it will be co-educational from September", and we need to add a source (the school's own brochure or announcement, although a primary source, will be fine in this instance). But we also need to fix the main text too because at the moment the page throughout speaks of it as a boys school. Also please be aware of the Conflict of Interest concerns that have been raised. If you are editing on behalf of the school itself, you should discuss the edits here rather than add them yourself. You are, nevertheless, very welcome to discuss and request changes even if you have a conflict of interest. You merely need to make that clear and then avoid editing the page directly. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:25, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ETA: This source suggests that the school has accepted girls in the nursery unit now [2] so we may be at the point a rewrite is in order. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:32, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Sirfurboy thank you for clarifying. Apologies I wasn't aware on the rules on how to make changes. I work for Elmhurst and wanted to add some information to the page about the school going co-ed. They have already welcomed girls in nursery (from Jan 2024) and will be welcoming more in Reception, year 1, Year 2 and Year 3 from September 2024. It would be great if we can add this in to the text and also add information about what type of school it is. It's a prep school (preparing children for 11+ exams). It also offers more subjects like Drama and Art.

Thanks so much Fdeva (talk) 11:50, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that. Okay, I will make some changes to represent the current situation and the forthcoming changes. The page already tells us it is a prep school though. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 13:01, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So another thing: it is a lovely new photo you have uploaded, and replacing the old school image that said "for boys" is good. But as these are images of children, I'll just check that you have the parental consent for using that image and placing on Wikimedia? I don't think there is a legal reason to require that (I am not an expert in that area) but it would be best practice. I know that on school articles I have edited I have tended to go for the safe option of an image of the buildings or badges. Another editor may be able to give further advice. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 13:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Sirfurboy thanks for checking, the photo has been approved to be used online for our marketing. Thanks for also making the changes to the opening paragraph. Would it be possible to slightly tweak the text to say: Elmhurst is a private 11+ prep school for boys aged 3-11 years (to be co-educational from September 2024) located in South Croydon, England. It is the successor to two schools both founded in 1869. Thanks so much Fdeva (talk) 13:20, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I could not see much difference between that text and what we have. I added in the 11+. The exact wording is affected slightly by the presence of wikilinks (blue linked text) and the fact that we usually bold the page title in the first sentence (so Elmhurst School, not Elmhurst) although I have no real objections to just saying Elmhurst. Whether it is "3-11" or "three to eleven" is a matter of style. I haven't checked our manual of style, but usually numbers under 10 are spelled out. Again, I have no real objection to using numerals if there is a reason to do so. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 14:17, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes you're right, it's usually numbers after 10. It's just a style preference to change it to 3-11 and something most schools prefer to do but if you prefer three-11 that's fine too. Thanks for adding 11+ Fdeva (talk) 14:24, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I changed it to 3-11. I think that's fine. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 14:32, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]