Talk:Demographics of New Zealand/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Question re: religion data

I don't mean to be frivolous, but per the entry on the Jedi Census Phenomenon in New Zealand, the response of 'Jedi' would be higher than that of Buddhists. Worth including? RB McLeroy 18:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Also, regarding freedom of religion, which cannot have been 'protected since the singing of the Treaty of Waitangi'(ToW) as the article claims (with a broken reference link), because the ToW was a legal 'nullity’ until the passing of the Treaty of Waitangi Act in 1975. The claim, as presented, is logically fallacious. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.92.187.32 (talk) 10:54, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Redirect from New zealands population

The above new page was just created but I think the information belongs here, if anywhere. I have copied the text of the original article below in full. As it gave no reference I have no idea where it's from or how accurate it is!

Article text begins: The population is a great deal amount of people that are living in new zealand. In Auckland there are 1 050 000 people In Wellington there are 329 000 people In Blenheim there are 23 637 people In Christchurch there are 318 000 people In Nelson there are 50 000 people In Hamilton there are 153 000 people In Whangarei there are 44 180 people In Napier/Hastings there are 112 000 people In Wanganui there are 41 210 people In Dunedin there are 112 000 people In Gisborne there are 31 480 people In Palmerston North there are 75 000 people In Timaru there are 27 640 people In Tauranga there are 76 000 people In Kapiti there are 27 380 people In Rotorua there are 55 000 people In Invercargill there are 52 000 people In New Plymounth there are 48 520 people Article text ends

Kim Dent-Brown ^{(Talk to me)} 13:54, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Mentioning Jedi

In the religion (2001 census) can someone add a mention of Jedi? See Religion in New Zealand#Jedi religion. S♦s♦e♦b♦a♦l♦l♦o♦s ^{(Talk to Me)} 21:23, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Demographics of New Zealand/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: 12george1 (talk) 20:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Try writing as many sentences as possible without parenthesis "( )". There are several occurrences of when a percentage is stated and is marked in parenthesis, but could easily be written without the parenthesis. Here is an example, "Most people are on wages or salaries (59.9 percent), with the other sources of income being interest and investments (24.1 percent) and self-employment (16.6 percent).". That sentence can be re-written as "Almost 60 percent of people are on wages or salaries, while 24.1 percent gain income from interest and investments, and the remaining 16.6 percent are self-employment."
I will work on this, but I am not sure how thorough you wish me to be. As this article uses a lot of stats the parenthesis serve a purpose in helping keep the flow of some paragraphs without bogging them down in numbers. I have probably overdone it though and I agree that the sentence mentioned and others like it should be re-written. I will work my way through them tomorrow (too late now) and then let you know so you can decide if more need to be re-written. AIRcorn (talk) 13:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Spell-out numbers with the "th", "st", "rd", "nd" suffix (e.g. "7th" to "seventh").

Hopefully got them all. I left 19th Century however. It looks better written that way and is even used in the article 19th Century AIRcorn (talk) 13:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

"Applicants with a job offer from an accredited New Zealand employer, cultural or sporting talent, looking for work where there has been a long-term skill shortage or to establish a business can apply for work to residency." - Unsoucred

Done. It was mentioned in the previous reference, but I also found another that made it clearer AIRcorn (talk) 13:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

On the second paragraph of the Ethnicity section, I think the word "dieing" is misspelled. However, I cannot identify whether or not that is British English, or a misspelling or a typo.

Should be dying AIRcorn (talk) 13:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

"There are 13 school years and attending public schools is free." - Also unsourced

Previous ref talked about the years, added a ref about the fees. AIRcorn (talk) 13:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

References #1 and #8 are duplicate references.

Removed ref from lead. AIRcorn (talk) 13:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

There is a template error with reference #16, because the a template is exposed.

Should be fixed now. AIRcorn (talk) 13:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

I attempted to see what the error was on reference #16. However, I also noticed an error on reference #17; the cite web template is formated correctly. Currently, the reference looks like this: <ref>http://www.stats.govt.nz/Census/2006CensusHomePage/QuickStats/AboutAPlace/SnapShot.aspx?id=3521000|title=QuickStats About Great Barrier Island|accessdate=18 May 2010 |publisher=Statistics New Zealand</ref>, when it show be this: <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.stats.govt.nz/Census/2006CensusHomePage/QuickStats/AboutAPlace/SnapShot.aspx?id=3521000|title=QuickStats About Great Barrier Island|accessdate=18 May 2010 |publisher=Statistics New Zealand</ref>

It was missing the closing parenthesis }}

The accessdate is missing on reference #42.

I don't think accessdates are necessary on news sources AIRcorn (talk) 13:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Reference #69 is a "deadlink"
Here is the cached version [1]. I am not sure how to incorporate this into the reference, but it should at least allow you to check it against the sentence. I am hoping the site restores itself soon. AIRcorn (talk) 13:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Reference #70 is missing the accessdate
Fixed AIRcorn (talk) 13:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Reference #80 is a "deadlink"

It works for me. Note that it links to a PDF that downloads when you click on it. I have wondered about these, should there be a warning on these types of refs or should they not be linked (instead linking to the website where they can be downloaded from). AIRcorn (talk) 13:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

- Scratch that first issue, I am going to be passing this article. Congratulations,--12george1 (talk) 14:20, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Section on New Zealand diaspora?

I was trying to find some information on the New Zealand diaspora (NZ citizens living abroad) and there was no information on this page. Would someone add a section about this? I eventually found some information on the NZ government population website which estimated 600,000 New Zealanders, about 15% of the citizen population, live abroad, which might be a useful addition to this page as this high percentage is quite unusual. http://population.govt.nz/myth-busters/myth-10.aspx --62.234.176.6 (talk) 10:24, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Some information in the last paragraph of Immigration. AIRcorn (talk) 12:49, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Changed heading to Migration. AIRcorn (talk) 12:54, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Editor assistance needed at Talk:Welfare

It would be useful to have some input from editors whose native language is New Zealand English to provide their perspective to help resolve a dispute over the article Welfare. In essence the argument is about the meaning of the word welfare. One school of thought is that Welfare nowadays mostly means "financial aid for the poor" and that the article about that topic should be simply Welfare. The other school of thought is that the word "welfare" has two meanings ("well-being" and "financial aid for the poor") and that the article welfare should be a disambiguation page explaining the two meanings and then link off to the many articles there are about "financial aid to the poor" such as Social security. One idea is to move the content now in welfare moved over to Welfare (financial aid).

If you have the time, please read the discussions here and record your thoughts here. Cheers--84.250.230.158 (talk) 19:21, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Sources

I have removed a swathe of material added by User:122.62.226.243 [2]. The material was originally unsourced; now it is poorly and inadequately sourced. It is difficult to determine how much of this is original research. It is also poorly written and punctuated and fails to adhere to WP:MoS. The contributing IP editor has a woeful record of adding unsourced opinion: see User talk:122.62.226.243. BlackCab (talk) 04:34, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Even if it could be reliably sourced, much of the information goes off on an different track. I don't know what cannibalism has to do with demographics. Saying that it would be good to have some per-European settlement demographics. AIRcorn (talk) 04:58, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree, and this person is simply edit-warring rather than discussing. All content relating to Polynesian dogs, tsunamis, magic chants, or smashing babies heads with rocks and "rebel" Maori in the Waikato wars is utterly irrelevant to the subject of the article. The sourcing still remains unclear. It should all be deleted. BlackCab (talk) 10:54, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

slaves .

During the Musket wars the northern tribes in particular took very large numbers of slave-probably well into the thousands, though the victim were unable to record their suffering and many died. Slaves were often women and children as male slaves were too much of a threat. They had no social status at all unless they had a special skill such as weaving or singings. They were normally used to grow potatoes or other manual work. Sometimes slaves were eaten-often in a fit of revenge, sometimes for a trivial missdeed. Chiefs found that slave girls were useful as prostitutes to service the hundreds of ships that arrived in the Bay of Islands and Hokianga in particular.The slave girls were forced to hand over any payment to the chief. French captains wrote at length about this practice while the prudish Victorian British kept largely silent. LMS missionaries were appalled.It is alleged that chiefs had slaves forceably tattooed so they could be beheaded and the smoked heads sold to traders. After 1840 most of the surviving Maori slaves were released partly because of pressure from LMS and Catholic missionaries. Some of the slaves had received a sort of education based on the bible from missionaries and spread christianity to all parts of the North Island on their return to their turangawaiwai. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.226.243 (talk) 10:59, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

None of which has any bearing on demographics of New Zealand. Please stop your disruptive editing and learn to collaborate. BlackCab (talk) 11:01, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

All of which is critical to the understanding of NZ demographics.Please stop your disruptive vandalism and learn to be positive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.226.243 (talk) 21:27, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Having information on pre-European settlement would be great, but it has to relate to demographics. Going into details on what happened is not important. So saying that a certain number of Maori were slaves could and probably should be mentioned with a reliable source, but this is not the article for discussing the slave trade. That would be Slavery in New Zealand or a perhaps a short mention in Maori (people), History of New Zealand or some other more appropriate article. I see this as a weight issue as well as a reliable sourcing issue. AIRcorn (talk) 03:07, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Problem with stats for under 18yr olds.

In the lead the figures given for under 18 year olds add up to a lot more than 100%. No source is given so it cannot be easily corrected. Anyone got any ideas? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.226.243 (talk) 22:02, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Pure-White?

What exactly does this mean? As far as I'm aware, the census doesn't ask you whether you're 'Pure-white' but whether you identify as New Zealand European/Pakeha--'Pure-White' sounds a bit too Ku Klux Klan for my liking. You can't really say that everyone who identifies as Pakeha is 'Pure-white' anyway, especially in the South Island given the large amount of interracial relationships that have always been practised there. I know many Pakeha who are certainly not 'Pure-White' (whatever that means), but would still identify as Pakeha/New Zealand European. Maori themselves identify as being Maori (and rightfully so) despite some European racial ancestry.

Is this some site-wide nonsense spouted by the apartheid-like language of certain identity politics? 130.216.235.16 (talk) 00:28, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Removed 'Pure-White' since it is not mentioned whatsoever in the source. 130.216.235.16 (talk) 01:23, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Population figures for early Maori suspect

Recent evaluation of Cook's estimate of early Maori population has revealed significant flaws. Cook's methodology was based on a system he developed in Tahiti whereby he estimated the coastal population and then, using a grid, transferred this to inland areas. Cook over estimated the Tahitian population by about 20%. In NZ Cook was faced with far worse weather and visibility preventing him closing on the coast resulting in several well known mapping errors. He miscalculated the width of the South Island. It is likely that his figure of 100,000 (suspiciously round to be taken too seriously) was at least 20% out and quite possibly far more.

We know little of death rates among early Maori but we do know that women had few children ( from examining adult female skeletons), life expectancy was very low ( early on in the colonizing period when the food supply was abundant the average life expectancy at Wairau Bar was about 14 years.) Considerable doubt has been placed on introduced disease/epidemics as a cause of widespread deaths. Studies have shown these outbreaks were local and short lived. In the north where there was much contact between Maori and Europeans, Maori seem to have become immune to disease early on as accounts show survival rates about the same as for Europeans. We know now that people in general good health, with plentiful supply of food and shelter can survive disease that might otherwise kill them.The North, which had a Maori population of about 35,000( by far the biggest concentration of Maori in NZ ) also has the best climate for food production and there is ample evidence that by 1825 was producing massive surpluses of food to sell to the numerous ships that called to buy provisions. The widespread and regular sexual inter action between sailors and Maori females would have produced numerous part Maori children all adding to increased immunity. There are no accounts of widespread epidemics in the North that only effected Maori.

We do know that Maori took part in massive pitched battles using traditional weapons which produced many deaths, such as the battle near Te Awamutu about 1795, which is claimed to be the biggest single battle ever to take place in NZ. During the long Musket War period (1805 to 1843 about) over 500 battles took place. Some were observed at close quarters by missionaries (trying to stop the slaughter). Muskets were often used at the start of a battle to terrify the enemy then the two sides closed and attacked each other with range of traditional hand weapons. After victory it was common for defeated leaders to be tortured , killed and eaten, further adding to the deaths. Likewise missionaries in the Bay of Islands reported the routine butchering of captured slaves by the relatives of deceased victors. Many of the battles, such as those by Te Rauparaha generally took place far away from missionary eyes. 700 victims per year may or may not be accurate but is significant if the population was more like 70,000 to start with rather than 100,000. The mid 19th century census tells us the Maori population was about 55,000 but this was far from reliable as it was based mainly on estimates not actual counting and we still do not know if half cast Maori were counted or not. By 1850 it is likely that as much as 35% of the South Island Maori population was half cast . Given that until 1950 Maori routinely isolated themselves from European settlement it is highly likely many Maori were not counted, especially those such as Kingitanga who had strong anti European feelings. There is ample evidence that through the contact period Maori routinely killed female children at birth in large numbers(about 20% of all female babies) and this pattern of female infanticide is true up until the 1880s. Accounts from Maori claim that male children were favoured as potential warriors. This may have had some impact on population increase. In many cases slaves were forbidden to have children with other slaves. The last Maori slaves on the Chatham islands were not released until the mid 1860s. We do know that several complete iwi were wiped out during the Musket War period and most Maori had their food production systems interrupted by warfare. Driven away from their fish and shellfish supplies and without access to their garden crops life was very hard for iwi pushed out of their home territory.

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