Talk:DFS Zögling

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the DFS Zögling article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Aviation: Aircraft / Gliding

This article is within the scope of the Aviation WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.AviationWikipedia:WikiProject AviationTemplate:WikiProject Aviationaviation articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion not met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated projects or task forces:
/
	This article is supported by the aircraft project.
	This article is supported by the gliding project.

Germany Low‑importance

	Germany portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Daily pageviews of this article

A graph should have been displayed here but graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at pageviews.wmcloud.org

The SG 38 is not a Zögling, but a further advancement of this. --Billyhill (talk) 19:46, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You may well be right on that point. The refs used in the article were not at all clear about this, so if you have a better ref that would clear this relationship up that would be very useful to improve the article. - Ahunt (talk) 20:12, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(EC) If it helps (but bearing in mind that we can't use other wiki pages as a reference) the German article says this: Der Schulgleiter ist eine Weiterentwicklung aus den Mustern Zögling 31 und Zögling 35 which translated says 'The school glider is a further development of the Types Zögling 31 and Zögling 35.' Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 20:38, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Schneider[edit]

Weren't the first SG-38's not build by Schneider, making it the Schneider SG-38 instead of Stamer Lippisch SG-38?
Also I think the first flight was in 1938 (not 1926), hence the "38" in the designation. --Antheii (talk) 20:34, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not according to this German source which as I read it says Stamer/Lippisch then Schneider as constructors. 1938 does crop up as a development date. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 21:11, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct those two are the Konstrukteure - but in this case, with my somehow limited knowledge of the German language, could best be translated as designer, not as builder. Also, the same page says the builder was Flugzeugwerk Schneider in Grunau. And according to the same page, the prefix "SG" even is derived from this Schneider-Grunau, and not from Schulgleiter, in contrast to popular belief - although this probably was a nice coincidence.

But I stand to be corrected, which is why I first brought it up here, before changing the article itself --Antheii (talk) 18:00, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This article needs splitting into two articles on the Zögling and the SG38. . . Mean as custard (talk) 09:46, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That certainly is one way to handle it. We really need to find a ref that clearly explains the relationship between the two and then make a decision whether to split into two articles or treat them as "one family of designs" within the same article based on that. - Ahunt (talk) 12:02, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Virtual Aviation Museum has separate pages for the Stamer Lippisch Zögling and the Schulgleiter SG 38; the drawings show the design is very different - see Zögling and SG 38. SG 38 content moved to SG 38 Schulgleiter. . . Mean as custard (talk) 16:41, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Should that have been DFS SG 38 Schulgleiter ? (also sometimes refered to as the DFS 14/S.G.38? MilborneOne (talk) 16:51, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The split was fairly incomplete, with lots of overlap in the two articles, including the titles. I have moved both and split them as far as I can do so to make sure they do not overlap. I would appreciate it if other editors would check that I did that right, including the best titles for the articles. - Ahunt (talk) 17:42, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the SG 38 was a DFS design, they probably only organised its wartime production by subcontractors. . . Mean as custard (talk) 10:36, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (aircraft) we usually use the "main manufacturer" of the type, but if you think it should be changed to another name then let's discuss that and see what would be best. - Ahunt (talk) 12:12, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Name[edit]

The Zogling is normally refered to as the RRG Zogling and sometimes the Z-12 Zögling do we know what the more common name is? MilborneOne (talk) 17:28, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The three refs now cited call it Stamer Lippisch Zögling, Zoegling and Dr. Alexander Lippich Zoegling. - Ahunt (talk) 17:47, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK I thing the RRG Zogling may not be the same thing our List of gliders under RLM designations has:

108-11 RRG Zögling 33 primary glider (1933)
108-15 RRG Zögling 12m primary glider (1934)

Confusing? perhaps Zogling (en:pupil or student) was just a common name for a basic glider, any experts around? MilborneOne (talk) 18:04, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think that is very likely. After the original design there seem to have been many copies made by a range of individuals and companies, all called Zögling as well. - Ahunt (talk) 18:21, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: uncontested move. DrKiernan (talk) 14:12, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Stamer Lippisch Zögling → Zögling – This is the common name of all the license-built Zöglings with a few exceptions. Re-naming will also remove some confusion over naming that has surfaced in the past. The major point is that they are all almost identical aircraft with only variations introduced by the various licencees. Petebutt (talk) 05:58, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on DFS Zögling. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110516142717/http://www.soaringmuseum.org/collection.html to http://www.soaringmuseum.org/collection.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:57, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]