Talk:Crowbar

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weird see also sections[edit]

Digging bar

Halligan bar

Kinetic energy penetrator <--- What?

Wire iron

Origin of name[edit]

I was told by an old timer the crow bar is a straight heavy iron bar about 5 ft long with a flat pry bar on one side and a pointed side on the other for breaking, the name crow came from "straight as the crow flys" therefore crow bars are only straight bars. goose neck bars have a hook on them. and nail bars need to have the split end where the nail goes.

Origin[edit]

I think it would be of interest to mention the era and area in which the crowbar first appeared.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.36.148.40 (talk • contribs) 06:51, 27 March 2006

I second that NoItAl 05:52, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What is a crowbar?[edit]

Crowbar vs Jemmy[edit]

  • Is a Crowbar also called a Jimmy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MartinRudat (talk • contribs) 12:29, 18 April 2006
  • I know a crowbar as a long (6 feet or so) bar, with a chisel-point, and a jemmy bar as a two or three-foot bar, with both a chisel point, and a splayed hook for removing nails. I've used both for lifting and shifting heavy stuff, but only the jemmy bar for opening wooden boxes and removing nails. --Martin Rudat(T|@|C) 11:29, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Jemmy or jimmy, both appear to be correct. There isn't any mention of them though here or in a separate article. -Yupik 07:24, 25 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • The British "crowbar", five or six feet long with a chisel end, is dealt with under the American term spud bar. This "crowbar" is the American term for the thing called a jemmy in Britain. --Richard New Forest (talk) 18:42, 26 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • I am British, from Birmingham, 1970s vintage, and for me a crow-bar is the shorter version with the U-shaped end for pulling nails or putting extra force under a stubborn board that won't come up with the other end with the shallower angle and spade-shaped or chisel-shaped end. It is also known as a Jemmy, but I agree that that use has nefarious connotations. I have never heard of a pry bar, a spud bar or pinch bar or any of the variants. As mentioned elsewhere, I would consider "crowbar" to be an umbrella term for all of those.
    • This American knows the object described in the lede as a "pry bar"; to me a "crowbar" is as MartinRudat describes it. I've never, ever, heard of a "spud bar". What does DARE say (if anything)? 121a0012 (talk) 04:55, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • My Dad, a former Seabee, referred to the kind of bar with a chisel point on one end and the other end tapering to a rounded end, as a "crowbar"--that type of bar is sold in the local hardware stores as a "pinch point bar" (they have other bars that are similar to the photo in the "spud bar" article), and its original purpose was not digging--it was a piece of railroad equipment used for various purposes, two of which were moving freight cars (wedge it under a wheel and the mechanical advantage is sufficient for one person to move an immense amount of weight) and adjusting the position of track--you'd see teams of gandy dancers with those bars shifting track a fraction of an inch but keeping it completely straight. I don't have any kind of source for this information, two of my father's best friends were tracklayers for the Seaboard Coastline and my uncle was an engineer for the same railroad so this is lore that I gained by osmosis. I'm hesistant to edit the article on this basis.24.250.15.189 (talk) 13:47, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pinch Bar[edit]

  • My grandad calls it a "pinch bar". I'm not sure if this refers to them being used by thieves to break open doors and "pinch" peoples property, or the way that the end can pinch something back.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.151.233.194 (talk • contribs) 19:15, 5 February 2007

Corrected Error[edit]

  • Martin is actualy correct - a Crowbar is a Long, Straight bit of metal, with a chisel point. The Type of "Crowbar" Discussed in this Article Is actualy called a "Wrecking Bar" - The reason that the article is called "Crowbar" is thahttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Crowbar_%28tool%29&action=edit&section=3t Wrecking bars are incorrectly known as Crowbars in the common vernacular. Churba 16:26, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would agree with that, except to say that I consider a wrecking bar/jemmy to be a class of crowbar and the Oxford English Dictionary seems to agree with that. I think that when you say 'crowbar' most people think of a wrecking bar, because it is a much more common form of the tool - I have only ever seen a full size crowbar once, and that was a 'point and chisel bar' which looks very little like the 'spud bar' on the 'spud bar' page. I also think that many people incorrectly believe jemmy to be a slang term (I did). Also would like to mention that I feel the term . Of course this only applies to the term as it is used in UK and in my experience. Also is the use of crowbars as weapons in computer games really relevant, I don't notice this for any other tools, except the chainsaw. Anon 16:35, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Addition:
    • The wrecking bar is the curved bar and the jimmy/jemmy is the smaller version of the same thing. Crow bar is the straight longer heavy bar. We should used Wikipedia to standardize the terminology. Crow, pinch, wrecking, jimmy (USA), Jemmy (British), ect.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kcshawman (talk • contribs) 12:57, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, Wikipedia is not a place for standardising terminology, it is an encyclopaedia describing concepts and things – see Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. This article is about a thing, and like any other it should include all the names commonly used for the thing, explaining how they are used and who uses them. If other things share some of these names, then we should also explain that, and give links to the articles about the other things. If word usage is confusing, illogical, inconsistent or otherwise unsatisfactory, we just have to put up with it and explain it as best we can. Richard New Forest (talk) 15:21, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • For whatever it's worth, when I was working on the ranch we used a straight "crowbar" (similar to an extended spud bar) for digging and a curved "pinch bar" for pulling nails or prying boards. Even though these appear to be quite different tools used for quite different purposes, the word "crowbar" seems firmly attached to both of them in the English language. Webster's Second Edition (1934) describes a crowbar as "more or less bent" but provides an illustration of a straight bar with a chisel point. Meanwhile, a Google image search on "crowbar" turned up many images of curved pinch bars, but almost none of straight crowbars used for digging. An additional paragraph in the article to help sort this issue would seem called for. --67.76.57.128 (talk) 13:33, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

New discussion, re moving page 'Crowbar'[edit]

This discussion was copied from page Talk:Crowbar.
The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 06:13, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Crowbar → Crowbar (disambiguation) Crowbar (tool) → Crowbar

  • The obvious target of Crowbar is Crowbar (tool). Crowbar should be moved to Crowbar (disambiguation), so Crowbar (tool) can be moved there. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 10:02, 27 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment there's another tool, the spud bar, and there's the electrical circuit, as well, which are likely, though not so prominent targets, as well... And the crowbar article seems to conflate two different tools. A Pry bar doesn't have the U-shaped hooked end. 70.29.208.247 (talk) 20:41, 27 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • To me here in England (e.g. when I was in the IWPS) the long straight tool is a 'crowbar' and the shorter U-curved tool is a 'jemmy' or 'packing case opener'. Is this another systematic transatlantic difference like with blowtorch? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:06, 27 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment probably... well, that's exasperating... there's no way to split the article then. 70.29.208.247 (talk) 05:03, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Spudbar3a.jpg (the image in page Spud bar) is not what I (in Manchester in England) know of as a crowbar. What I know as a crowbar is 4 to 5 feet long, straight or nearly so, hexagonal or circular cross section everywhere, with a short flat end for levering or ramming. But Google search for images for "crowbar" shows mostly the J-shaped type, and snow goggles. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 15:15, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
  • What I knew as a "crowbar" here in England in the IWPS was a long straight bar, about 4 or 5 feet long. It did not have a flattened end as described in page Spud bar. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:06, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology phrasing[edit]

  • I restructured the etymology section. previously it started with the false version, tells them its false, assures them its false and then tells the correct history. To add more credence to the actual history and give it a less pleading tone I rearranged it to make the true statement first followed by a mention of the false history. I tried to clean up the wording as well but it might need some refinement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmkrantz (talk • contribs) 09:47, 26 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Better picture?[edit]

Would the be any interest in a (arguably) better picture that shows the flat-end? It would be easy to produce. 66.191.19.217 (talk) 01:16, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I will work on getting another photo created. Surv1v4l1st (Talk|Contribs) 16:42, 25 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It was added today. Surv1v4l1st (Talk|Contribs) 21:13, 27 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cross Section[edit]

An I-beam type cross section does not increase stiffness. What it does do is maintain stiffness at a lower weight. If we're comparing cross sections of equivalent stiffness what you'd get from a I cross section is significantly lower weight per unit length. I think that the comparison is far too complicated to reduce to such a simple statement of an I shaped beam is stiffer, especially because it's only really stiffer in one direction, and is less stiff in most other directions when compared to a solid rod. There are also the differences in stiffness as a function of loading axis due to cross sectional differences between hexagonal, circular and square rods. Probably best to just leave it out, if they want to know what's going on, they can look up I-beams. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.210.18.163 (talk) 20:57, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Zombie Section[edit]

There used to be a short section about how the crowbar in featured in a number of zombie films, video games, and the Zombie Survival Guide. It was removed by an anon IP with no reason given. I think it might be good to have back, but thought I'd post first. Thoughts? 66.191.19.217 (talk) 01:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to see a sort section and/or mention of said genre. Surv1v4l1st (Talk|Contribs) 00:50, 11 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Doubtful etymology[edit]

I've cut out the second and third paragraphs of the etymology section, which said this:

The reality of the term has nothing at all to do with crows, crow’s feet, or crow’s beaks. The term comes to English via the Nordic languages….probably as far back as Viking settlements in England.
The term refers to a cow’s foot. In Danish a cow is a kue. In Norwegian a cow is a ku. In Swedish a cow is called a ko and is pronounced “coo” like a dove sounds. And a crowbar today in Swedish is a kofot….a “cow’s foot.” And one must mention that the bar’s pulling end [two fingers around a nail] resemble a cow’s foot and thus the English derivation of crowbar has nothing to do at all with the crow, but with cows or a ko. Our crowbar is named after a cow’s foot. This is the true etymology of the word.

This is correct as far as the Nordic etymology goes, but the English explanation is lacking. Sources like the OED (crow-bar; crow, note sense 5a) don't speak to it, but identify the first component with the bird name "crow". And the insertion of a spurious /r/ in the first onset, as this derivation needs, would be quite exceptional.

For that matter the paragraph is inexpertly written and gives the impression of its author not being familiar with sound change and regular cognacy; the observation seems to be "look, don't these sound similar". Could well be original speculation. 4pq1injbok (talk) 02:46, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just a few quick points on this, in favour of the cow theory 1: Here in Brazil, the Portuguese for crowbar is "pé de cabra" - literally "goat's foot", supporting the cow theory without being a simplistic "well it sounds similar" explanation, since there is no menrtion of a bar and "cabra" doesn't sound anything like "vaca" (cow) or "gralha" or "corvo" (words for crow). 2: a crow's foot has little resemblance to the end of a crowbar and a crowbar with more than one notch in the end (like a crow's foot) would be fairly spurious.

3:the OED is not always correct about etymology and often contradicts itself. 

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.67.161.230 (talk) 08:25, 17 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

crow bar[edit]

how come crowbars are on busses? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.105.226.129 (talk) 01:29, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You mean on electrical busses? EEng (talk) 12:07, 17 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Other types or more notable subtypes[edit]

  • indexing pry bar
  • Kwick Gripper - it is the same in function to Cat’s claw pry bars that are designed primarily for removing embedded or headless nails according to [1]
  • crescent tools bull bar - maybe subtype of heavy-duty pry bar Setenzatsu.2 (talk) 11:36, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 1 May 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. There is consensus shared by supporters and opposers that examining usage does not yield a conclusive primary topic, so we turn to long-term significance to see if it can tip the scales. Consensus also found that the tool here has a decisive edge on the long-term significance department, and thus the tool is primary. (non-admin closure) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 16:49, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

– This is disambiguation run amok, verging on an WP:EPICFAIL. While pageviews are similar between the tool, band, wrestler and electrical circuit, it's clear that the rest of them are all based on the name of the widely known tool, so it has the most longterm significance by a wide margin. (Crowbar (circuit) could also fairly easily be naturally disambiguated as Crowbar circuit.) ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:31, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong support. Clear primary topic by historical importance, almost to the point of WP:ASTONISH to have this at a disambiguated title. BD2412 T 19:53, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. We consider pageviews and long-term notability when it comes to primary topics, and the tool fails the first criterion by OP's own admission. I'm reminded of a similar recent RM at Talk:Ratchet (device), which did not find consensus to move. 162 etc. (talk) 20:45, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The point is that long-term notability of the tool overrides blindly looking at pageviews to determine the primary topic while ignoring the obvious. In any event, Ratchet (slang) was unrelated to the tool in any way, so it is a different situation with that article than this one. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:23, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 23:43, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The tool is clearly the primary topic. JIP | Talk 00:36, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. BilledMammal (talk) 02:16, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The tool article is clearly not primary by usage - two-thirds of our readers are looking for something else.. And "being named after" does not decide a primary topic: "While long-term significance is a factor, historical age is not determinative. Being the original source of the name is also not determinative." Otherwise, Boston would be a dab page. Also - the U.S. band and the wrestler have both been around over 30 years; they have their own long-term significance as well. Just because you haven't heard of the other uses doesn't mean it's astonishing for our readers to be looking for them. A dab page is the best way for readers to get where they actually want. Sending 66% of them to the wrong page doesn't help readers or editors. Dohn joe (talk) 16:08, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Usually something would need a pretty massive amount of views more to eclipse what it was named after as a primary topic. The other topics called "crowbar" simply don't. At best they are equivalent to the tool.
    Crowbars have also been around since the year 1400 or older; a 30 year old band is hardly old in comparison. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:35, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Though the tool has a relatively trivial lead in pageviews, it undoubtedly wins out by long-term significance. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 20:29, 3 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Very clear primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:57, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. If the rules say this is not the primary topic then the rules are wrong. But I'm not convinced that they do. Would any reasonably edited encyclopedia really disambiguate the tool? Isn't this exactly why we have the long-term significance criterion? (Personally I think we should abandon the whole idea of primary topic, but that seems a long way off still.) Could also be seen as an example of the problem with page views. Andrewa (talk) 18:21, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Clearly has the long-term significance casualdejekyll 19:10, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Roughly 70% of readers searching for "Crowbar" want something other than the tool.[2] We should not purposely inconvenience them by making them go through the extra step of clicking on a hatnote because we subjectively think they should want to read about a simple tool rather than a band or a wrestler. Station1 (talk) 06:31, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose per Station1, there is also Digging bar which may be unrelated and also has long-term significance. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:04, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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