Talk:Christmas horror

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A fact from Christmas horror appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 25 December 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that an early example of the genre of Christmas horror is A Christmas Carol, published in 1843?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/December. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Christmas horror.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Lightburst talk 16:32, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come

... that A Christmas Carol (Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come pictured) was an early example of the Christmas horror genre? Source: http://www.screenonline.org.uk/tv/id/1154975/ "In 1843 Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol forever tied the festive season to the genre." https://time.com/6125423/best-christmas-horror-movies/ "While it may seem counterintuitive to celebrate a joyful holiday with something scary, remember that ghosts are the cornerstone of some of the most classic Christmas tales. “Marley was dead, to begin with,” goes the famous first line of Charles Dickens’ A Christmas Carol, in which Ebenezer Scrooge is visited by not just one, but four ghosts. Even in kid-friendly versions of the story, like The Muppet Christmas Carol, the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come bears a striking resemblance to the Grim Reaper." https://www.vice.com/en/article/gywvwq/christmas-is-the-perfect-time-to-binge-on-horror-movies "The obvious historical example is Charles Dickens’ A Christmas Carol, in which miserly old Ebenezer Scrooge is visited by three ghosts in the night and terrorized into changing his greedy ways.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Muppet Theory
- Comment: This would be great for Christmas Eve, if we can slot it in as a special occasion request I'd appreciate it. I've provided a closer crop as an alt image.

Created by Valereee (talk). Self-nominated at 21:07, 3 December 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Christmas horror; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

Ebenezer Scrooge confronted by the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come

Article is new enough (created 12/3), long enough (3500 characters of narrative text), well written and sourced, and appears free of copyvio based on spot-checking. The hook is short enough, interesting, and sourced with in-line citations. QPQ is completed. I also agree with the suggestion of running this on Christmas Eve. User:Valereee: My only comment/suggestion is that the hook as drafted will direct most of the views to A Christmas Carol. Your article on Christmas horror is excellent, and it would be nice to see a hook that is more likely to direct eyes in that direction. If want to create an alt hook, I'd be happy to review it. Otherwise, the original hook you submitted is fine.)

Hey, Cbl62, thanks for the review! I'd thought about that, too...maybe if I turn it around?

ALT0a: ... that an early example of the Christmas horror genre is the 1843 A Christmas Carol (Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come pictured)?

Valereee (talk) 13:58, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I think if it's the first link in the hook it will help a bit. Both are approved. Cbl62 (talk) 14:59, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Cbl62! Would you be willing to move it from the approved noms page to the Special occasion holding area? Valereee (talk) 16:25, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would but I haven't done that before and don't want to mess things up. Perhaps ping one of the DYK regulars who are familiar with the process? Cbl62 (talk) 18:06, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, the fact you support that move is enough, thanks so much! Valereee (talk) 22:08, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

100% support. Great for Christmas Eve. In the words of Scrooge: "I will honour Christmas in my heart, and try to keep it all the year."

@Valereee: Another image was used for the Christmas set. I will promote ALT0a to the Christmas set. I noted that @Cbl62: mentioned Christmas Eve? Right now there is a runner in that slot but you can start a discussion on DYK talk to see if this article should be moved or given an image slot. Lightburst (talk) 16:31, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Genres[edit]

"Christmas horror" is a film and television genre that arose after 1974. "Christmas ghost stories" are a genre that goes back into the past, arose from oral traditions, made its way into the literature, had a very brief experiment in the US with Washington Irving, (and later Nathaniel Hawthorne, and Henry James), but only took off as a major literary genre in Victorian England with Dickens (who was a huge fan of Irving). I don't think the literature of this Christmas ghost story tradition is characterized as "Christmas horror". I'm pretty sure you've got two separate topics here, but there's no doubt they intersect with each other. Viriditas (talk) 03:29, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I felt like there's an overall genre which has included multiple types of media. If the article gets expanded enough, we could spin off Christmas horror film, maybe? Valereee (talk) 17:54, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll leave the decision to you and others. I think this is one of those situations where if you went back to, let's say 1969, and wrote about "Christmas horror", people wouldn't have any idea what you were talking about. To me, at least, this sounds like a new idea that's describing older ones in a new context. I wouldn't call it revisionism, but it does feel historically inaccurate to me. Viriditas (talk) 22:09, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, yeah, the modern genre doesn't seem to have emerged until the 1970s. But there were precursors to it, which are described in various sources, so that's why I put it into the origins and history section. Are you thinking we should reorganize somehow? Valereee (talk) 22:26, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would say, only reorganize if you yourself get that idea from the sources. I see you've got Yuletide Terror: Christmas Horror on Film and Television in the further reading section, but if you take a look at it, particularly its discussion about the history of ghost stories, you may get some ideas. There's also some interesting sources that talk about different eras: 1) Oral traditions (pre-19th century) 2) Christmas ghost stories in literature (c. 19th-20th century) 3) Christmas television (c. 1950s) 4) Christmas horror in film (c. 1970s). There's also the larger topic of "British Christmas", of which there are several popular sources, but no actual article on Wikipedia. I think if you look at all those different things it will give you some idea. Good luck. Viriditas (talk) 22:38, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Viriditas, I've got it in Further reading because I can't find a copy unless I buy it, which I try to avoid. Do you have access to a copy? Valereee (talk) 19:04, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Viriditas (talk) 19:14, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you suggest wording from it that could be added? Or if you don't want to do that, but could send it (or whatever portion of it is relevant) to me in some form, I'd quite like to read it. My email is enabled on my user. Valereee (talk) 20:09, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will send you an email. Viriditas (talk) 20:27, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Email sent. Viriditas (talk) 21:05, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]