Talk:Carpentersville Middle School

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Untitled[edit]

This article took me a month. I don't know why it got declined so many times. EDG_543 (talk) 18:05, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • @EDG 543: Again, middle schools are not automatically notable, and the references for this school cite routine and local coverage, falling short of WP:ORGDEPTH. Piling on local reports of staff misconduct doesn't help. Removing reviewers' comments and resubmitting doesn't help either. • Gene93k (talk) 18:48, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Notability[edit]

@EDG 543: The article has plenty of references. The main problem here is that the subject itself doesn't seem to meet Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies). This is pretty common with middle schools: see WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES. The requirement for notability is significant coverage in multiple "reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject". I've looked at the 49 references, and tagged whether they would count for notability. (Excuse the ugly formatting; I put some source names in [brackets] so I didn't lose my place in the list. "Self" means it doesn't count for notability because the subject is writing about itself.)

  1. no
  2. no
  3. no
  4. self
  5. no & also a bad reference (effectively using Wikipedia itself as a reference) [Gutenberg]
  6. self
  7. no
  8. not really (independent, but all-school routine coverage required by state law) [Illinois Report Card listed as "IRC" below]
  9. self
  10. self [d300.org]
  11. no (passing mention, not a primary focus)
  12. duplicate (effectively part of source 8 IRC)
  13. no (mostly-automated coverage of all schools, with comments sections)
  14. no (probably mostly-automated coverage of all schools - also dead link now)
  15. not really (independent, but all-school routine coverage required by federal law, and also probably mostly sourced to 8 IRC)
  16. duplicate (14)
  17. no (indiscriminate automated directory of statistics from other sources)
  18. no (indiscriminate automated directory of from other sources)
  19. no (automated directory)
  20. duplicate (8 IRC) [IRC]
  21. duplicate (14) & dead
  22. duplicate (14) & dead
  23. no (indiscriminate automated directory of statistics from other sources)
  24. not really (coverage of district changes, CMS one of 5 involved)
  25. YES but local (independent, substantial coverage mostly about CMS building addition) [Daily Herald]
  26. YES but local (independent, substantial coverage mostly about CMS building addition) [Northwest Herald]
  27. duplicate (8 IRC)
  28. self (appears to be affiliated with school) & dead
  29. no
  30. self (not independent of the subject) [CMS music site]
  31. self (not independent of the subject)
  32. no
  33. no
  34. no (about a teacher, not substantially about the school)
  35. no (about a teacher, not substantially about the school)
  36. no (about a teacher, not substantially about the school)
  37. no (about a teacher, not substantially about the school)
  38. no (about a teacher, not substantially about the school)
  39. no (about a teacher, not substantially about the school)
  40. no (about a teacher, not substantially about the school) [Aurora Beacon-News]
  41. no (about a teacher, not substantially about the school)
  42. no (about a teacher, not substantially about the school)
  43. no (about a teacher, not substantially about the school)
  44. no (about a teacher, not substantially about the school)
  45. YES but local (independent, substantial coverage about CMS food pantry) [Daily Herald]
  46. YES but local (independent, substantial coverage about CMS food pantry) [Elgin Courier-News]
  47. self
  48. YES but local (independent, substantial coverage about CMS food pantry) [Daily Herald]
  49. self

Per WP:AUD, since this is a worldwide encyclopedia, substantial notice beyond local notability is required. I thought of the Chicago Tribune, but it turned out that articles on its website are likely just carrying the Elgin Courier-News; maybe appearance in the print city edition might indicate wider coverage. Some ideas for showing substantial independent coverage:

  • If you can find some news articles outside of Chicago that are specifically about the school, that would help.
  • Middle schools weren't as common back in the 1950s. Is there a chance that this school had a different name that would show up in older newspapers? Maybe Dundee Community High School?
  • Was it built as a replacement for an older school that was discontinued in the 1950s? Community unit school districts were invented in 1949, so there's a good chance that District 300 was founded sometime between 1949 and 1954 and built the school to replace one or more older schools. Those schools might not have any more substantial non-local coverage than CMS does though; usually they were smaller and very localized.

Hope this helps. --Closeapple (talk) 08:10, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Closeapple: Thanks for the help, I appreciate it. EDG 543 (talk) 17:17, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Talk[edit]

Trivial discussion
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Please do not bully on wikipedia. For more info, please refer to Wikipedia:The Rules of Polite Discourse, Wikipedia:WikiBullying, and/or Wikipedia:Civility. I've worked very hard to make this Wikipedia article. I don't need you guys ruining it. EDG 543 (talk) 17:54, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

EDG 543, I'm curious as to what you think we're "ruining". There is no |abbr= parameter in the infobox, so having a |abbr=CMS does absolutely nothing. We were simply trying to correct that error. Primefac (talk) 18:03, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You are ruining the Carpentersville Middle School page. I thought that was matter-of-fact. Sorry about being unclear. Also, the main request was that you stop bullying. EDG 543 (talk) 18:19, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

EDG 543, I'm still not sure how we're ruining the page. How did the edits we made break things? Primefac (talk) 18:20, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Primefac: Honestly, I'm more mad at Gene93k. He's just mad because he told me my article wasn't good enough then, when it got accepted, I told him "U mad bro" and stuff. Now he's salty. But also, the article was just fine before you guys changed it. Again, the main topic was to address the bullying that took place by Steven (Editor)EDG 543 (talk) 18:37, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • @EDG 543: Careful. You are verging into personal attack territory. I reverted the edit because you put the page back on a cleanup list with a misleading edit summary. • Gene93k (talk) 21:55, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
All I see is an explanation for why the parameter was changed from |abbr= to |other_names=. Primefac (talk) 18:39, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Gene93k: I don't understand how saying that you're salty is a personal attack. Can you explain that please? EDG 543 (talk) 15:34, 17 April 2018 (UTC) @Primefac: Then you may need a new pair of glasses, bro. Hint hint. Look again. @Primefac: Wikipedia:You do need to cite that the sky is blue. Also, You're saying that I could've called the article whatever I wanted and not have to verify the name? That makes absolutely no sense. Me putting it in the title doesn't prove that it is actually called that. You have messed up logic. EDG 543 (talk) 15:44, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

An article called Earth is going to be about the Earth. An article called Carpentersville Middle School is going to be about Carpentersville Middle School. Putting it in the title does mean that we're discussing it. Primefac (talk) 15:49, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Primefac: Actually, it doesn't. If I named it Carpentersville School for Learning Stuff, and gave info about CMS, it would not be correct.EDG 543 (talk) 20:18, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That's an entirely different issue altogether. Primefac (talk) 20:55, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Primefac:How is it a different issue? EDG 543 (talk) 14:44, 18 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Because we're not discussing subject hijacking, we're discussing the need to "source" that the title of a subject is the name of the subject. Primefac (talk) 14:50, 18 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly what I've been trying to say. I'm just trying to prove that I'm not subject hijacking. EDG 543 (talk) 15:47, 18 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The proof of non-hijacking is the fact that the article title is the same as the URL is the same as what you're talking about. That's all the "proof" you need. Primefac (talk) 15:50, 18 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, no. If I called this page Carppennteersevilll Middle School, people would think that's what it's called because I didn't cite my sources. Americans spell bad enough as it is. I should prove to them that the school is really called that and that it's spelled correctly. EDG 543 (talk) 16:00, 18 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If there were a typo in the title it would be moved to the proper title. You're making nonsense arguments, you're wrong, and I'm not going to waste any more time debating this. Primefac (talk) 16:17, 18 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Primefac:Good. When the article is unlocked, don't mess it up. I'm fine with that.EDG 543 (talk) 16:51, 18 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There is no bullying. In addition to the comments said to you above, if you have a look at the parameters section of the documentation, you will see a list of the parameters that are supported and an explanation of each parameter. If you look next to |other_name= you will see it says: "Alternate current name by which the school is known, such as acronyms and abbreviations. If there is more than one, use |other_names= instead. If you also look under the full syntax section, you will see it says in brackets: "Note for new editors: this is a list of all parameters available in this template. Adding your own will not work and will flag up as an unsupported parameter. You can discuss any parameter concerns on the talk page. Don't forget, you can make use of the additional free text fields". If you were unaware of this, that's ok, again we were just fixing the problem. Steven (Editor) (talk) 19:00, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Edit Block[edit]

It says that it will unlock April 24, which is today. Why is it still locked? EDG 543 (talk) 15:19, 24 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's not, the protection expired at 14:46 UTC today. The gold lock image is only there -- if you see it -- until a bot notices it and removes it. The page has been unprotected. Edit gently please :) MPS1992 (talk) 18:18, 24 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@MPS1992: Thanks so much EDG 543 (talk) 19:13, 24 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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