Talk:Buzz cut

Neutrality

This page contained generalisations which may apply to some western countries but should not be assumed to be true everywhere. I have reworded some sections, but the article is still written from a western (North American) perspective which is likely not to be the case in other parts of the world (particulrly in terms of popularity etc). The article does not describe the popularity (or social conotations and stigmas) of the cut in some countries. The degree ogf pupularity among women varies widely among different cultures and the section is problematic. In terms of Western cultures it is the exception rather than the rule and any popularity is relative. -- Grummbles 12:36, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

PS. I removed a part that claimed that most buzzcuts are cut with a "number 1". Firstly, this is jargon, and should be explained (known as a grade 1 in the UK and other parts of the English speaking world), and secondly, it is my experience that a "number 1" is the most radical type of buzzcut and that most buyzzcuts are cut with a # or maybe #2 guard. And while I'm at it, buzzcuts aren't even known as buzzcuts in some parts of the world. In Australia they are known as crewcuts, and I dare say that they have different names in different parts of the world. -- Grummbles 12:40, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I think the Grades reffer to 1/8 of inches, but im not sure enough to include it. Does anyone know if its true. Lazmac 23:28, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

It's true. Each grade is 1/8 of an inch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.55.209.56 (talk) 19:05, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Cow-Cut

I agree that this cut is known by different names in different countries. One of my friends has recently acquired the same cut. We call him Cow, so I would like to call this cut as "cow cut."

Why?

Why do people get buzz cuts? Is it the sound of the clippers? Is it because it's low matenance? Or maybe it's the fuzzy feeling it has on the fingers after being freshly cut. Who knows?

I do a buzzcut becaue I got tired of paying $14 for a haircut. I do like the feeling of the freshly cut. I like the low maintenance. A shaved head is NOT a buzzcut, and is the most high maintenance of all, because it must be shaved almost every day. My buzzcut lasts for at least 2 weeks. Then, I just do another one.

It costs nothing and is very practical. --Joffeloff 23:25, 14 January 2007

02:17, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Swimming bz 02:18, 11 May 2007 (UTC)^{yee yee yee yee}_{yee yee yee yee}

Pic

Why isnt there a picture of a woman on here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.141.32.187 (talk) 23:36, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Why should there be a picture of a woman on here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.55.209.56 (talk) 18:32, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Pic of a woman....

It would be nice if we could get a pic of a woman with a buzzcut on here, however I realize that said picture would be hard to find. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.106.237.249 (talk) 19:02, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Expand Template

I added the expand template. The article needs some major expansion although I think it's long enough to not be a stub.Etineskid (talk) 15:59, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

merge into headshave

merging into head shaving is a good idea,as given that headshaving and buzz cutting are very simalar.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.97.164.250 (talk) 16:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC) 

idon't this article is notable enough for wikipedia

I have added the delete tag because I feel this article is likely not notable enough for wikipedia.After all,a large group of people is supposed to care about the subject of an article,and I think that very few people care enough about buzz cuts to read this article,placing it in the same catagory as a local interest article.RegardsImmunize (talk) 00:13, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Buzz cut is certainly notable. Please review WP:CSD, WP:Proposed deletion and WP:Afd. BTW: Local interest articles are acceptable, if they are properly referenced an sufficiently notable.

Unexplained reverts

Following unexplained reverts to my edits, I will expand on the reasoning for my aforesaid edits.

1)The article as I understand it from the title is about a “Buzzcut”, a term which I take to mean a very closely cropped hairstyle covering the whole head, differentiating it from other short cuts such as a flattop or a high and tight, the three collectively falling under the more general term of crew cut. Therefore it is incorrect to have an opening line in an article specifically about buzzcuts to read “A buzz cut, flattop, induction cut or wiffle is a very short haircut” when wikipedia article space itself differentiates the styles. If an editor thinks that they are the same then that editor should combine those articles into one (good luck with reaching a consensus on that one).

2)“Floyd's City Barber Shop in Mount Airy was said by the Reader's Digest to be the best place in the USA for a buzz cut in 2006.” It's hard to know where to begin with this one. Subjective? Unencyclopedic? Blatant promotion? Uncited? We have to start somewhere though, so to quote the article itself “The cut is usually performed using hair clippers without a comb guard.” Ergo, this is a style that is almost entirely generic, wherever it is performed in the world and by whomsoever. Any tiny differences between such cuts will be down to the clippers used. Do Floyds make their own special clippers? I honestly don't know, but I would bet large sums on them not doing so. So why is this the best place in the USA to get a haircut that one could get pretty much identically in any hairdressers in the world? Is it because it has a nice view? The staff are friendly? You get a free hot dog thrown in? I have no idea. But are any of these relevant in an encyclopaedic article about a style of haircut? No. Nonsense like this needs to be culled. As for the citation, I note that the link takes us to page 1 of a 128 page Google scan of a local newspaper which if one were prepared to trawl through for long enough one might find a local interest article in turn citing the Reader's Digest. Possibly. To be honest, life is too short to trawl through page after page for second hand citations for entries that are ultimately valueless. For the benefit of those who like to communicate through the medium of wikipedia guidelines rather than ordinary intercourse, my reasoning for the removal of this single line of text can be best summed up as: WP:UNDUEWEIGHT, WP:UNENCYCLOPEDIC, WP:PROMOTION, WP:V. danno 22:09, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

• Both of the details in question are supported by reliable sources which trump personal opinions. Colonel Warden (talk) 21:38, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Welcome back. It's taken you two weeks to not answer my points which in no way equate to personal opinion? Your edits are obstructive and tend towards vexatious editing. Your "sources" are little more than local interest pieces and vaguely cited at that. Were this a local interest article then fine, but it is a general article about a globally recognised hairstyle. Quite how you persist in claiming that the promotion of a small hairdressers in a small town equate to being merited in a general article escapes me. Until you can satisfy me as such I shall not accept your reversion of my edits. danno 22:01, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

• All my additions are supported by good sources such as the Encyclopedia of hair. Your edits seem to be supported only by your personal opinion. Please find sources to support your opinions as it is only by consideration of the sources that we will make satisfactory progress. I have added another citation for Floyd's to further demonstrate the notability of this matter. Colonel Warden (talk) 00:14, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Having seen the section from Encylopedia of Hair (thank you for finding that), I can now understand where you get the idea that a buzz cut is the same as a flat top, but I'm afraid that the erstwhile Ms. Sherrow is in error. My opinion? Certainly. Also the opinion of this site: http://boys-haircuts.com/classic-boys-hairstyles/, this site: http://www.buzz-cut.net/ (which interestingly is linked from the very article itself) where they differentiate the styles on the front page “ Whether you prefer the fade, a vintage flat-top, or just a boring buzz cut like me”, and here http://www.hairfinder.com/info/clippercutting.htm, and additionally the opinion of the wikipedia editors that declined your attempt to delete the separate flattop article twice just a few weeks ago. So not really only my personal opinion. In fact if you consider that myself, Pdcook and WolfWings all agree that they are different then that would appear to constitute a tacit consensus amongst wikipedia editors where it is your opinion that is in the minority.

Turning to the issue of Floyds Barbers, I quote from wikipedia's undue weight guideline “An article should not give undue weight to any aspects of the subject but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight appropriate to its significance to the subject. How much weight is appropriate should reflect the weight that is given in current reliable sources. An article's coverage of individual events or opinions involving its subject may be verifiable and impartial, but still disproportionate to their overall significance to the topic.” I'll give you a couple of examples to illustrate my point. If the Sunday Times (a source at least as valid if not moreso than the Reader's Digest) named Waitrose Supermarkets (a company far more noteworthy than Floyds Barbers) wine retailer of the year for 2007, would you expect to find that in the wikipedia article for wine? If AutoCar magazine names Gaunt of Sheffield the best place to get your Ford serviced in the UK do you think that it should be mentioned on the Ford Motor Company article?

The fact that the Reader's Digest named Floyds Barbers as the best place to get a buzz cut might be notable in an article about Mount Airy and it would almost certainly be notable in an article about hairdressing in....whatever state this particular Mount Airy is in (I don't know because the link hasn't been disambiguated), but that's about it. danno 20:17, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Turns out to be North Carolina so I've disambiguated it. danno 20:24, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

• There is some variation in the usage of the sources. Consulting the OED, we find:

buzz cut n. an extremely short haircut in which the hair takes on a bristly appearance.

As an example of usage it gives:

1995 Entertainm. Weekly 14 Apr. 44/1 A platinum-blond fringed buzz cut..brings out the razory thrust of her lips and cheeks.

This is from a review of Tank Girl, describing Lori Petty. Her hairstyle is not uniform but has bangs mixed in with clippered hair.

My view is then is that we should treat the topic in a general way, rather than trying to create a catalogue of narrow, definitive hairstyles, for which we have no authority. It may be helpful to compare with a similar broad topic at the other extreme - Big hair - which, by coincidence, is under active discussion right now. There seem to be more say about that topic - perhaps because there is more hair to work with - and the comparison may be illuminating. Colonel Warden (talk) 08:24, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Colonel, I appreciate your conciliatory approach and will endeavour to respond in like manner. I entirely agree that the two styles in question (buzzcut and flattop) are most certainly very similar and their differentiation is to a certain degree subjective, as our respective sources have ably illustrated. For what it's worth, I see no real reason why all of these styles shouldn't be combined under the umbrella of the Crew Cut article with each having its respective sub-section given their similarity and obvious shared roots (no pun intended) and the fact that as standalone articles they are all fairly weak and with little obvious potential for valuable expansion. However unless/until that has happened (and consensus would appear to be against it unless we can create some kind of kick-ass combined article), I think that it makes little sense to have this article stating that they are the same whilst another article states that they are not. As you say, neither of us are particularly expert in the tonsorial arts so a protracted debate between us on the subject would appear to be a waste of wiki resources. danno 21:01, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Major Edit Needed

(A buzz cut, flattop, induction cut or wiffle is a very short haircut.[1])

Here is what should be stated....

Buzz cut is used in two contexts: 1) To describe a variety of short hairstyles cut primarily with electric clippers that emit a buzzing sound, hence the name. Those styles include: butch, brush cut, crew cut, flat top, forward brush, ivy league. 2) An amateur cut butch haircut. A style where: a) all the hair on the top of the head is cut to one short length with guarded clippers or b) the hair on the top of the head is cut to one short length with guarded clippers and the hair on the back and sides of the head is cut to a shorter length with guarded clippers.

The rest of this article should only discuss the word buzz cut used in the second context.

(The cut is usually performed using hair clippers without a comb guard. The sides are cut closely and then the top is either shaped or cut to the same short length all over. The cut takes just a few minutes to perform.[1] A buzz cut can make the face look more defined. The buzz cut is popular among men and women who want a short, low-maintenance hairstyle. Far fewer women than men get their hair clipped off.)

(The cut is usually performed using hair clippers without a comb guard.) The first sentence is just plain false. A buzz cut when the word is being used to describe an amateur butch is usually not performed without a clipper guard on a clipper. If a barber cuts a butch, it will be performed without a clipper guard because a barber has professional rotary clippers that have blades that snap on and off and cut to the exact length without a clipper guard needed to regulate length. When a haircut is performed with home clippers without a clipper guard attached, the haircut is not usually referred to as a buzz cut but as a clipper shave. An amateur butch is cut with a clipper guard on the clippers.

(The sides are cut closely and then the top is either shaped or cut to the same short length all over.) This statement fails to distinguish the context in which the word buzz cut is being used. An amateur butch, which is what this article is about, is cut one length on the top of the head.

(There are many different variations of buzzcuts.) Not needed, since this article should only be discussing amateur butch haircuts. The variations involve the different clipper guard lengths used to cut the top, back and sides.

("One variation leaves some bangs (fringe) so they can be spiked upwards using gel or other hair products.") Not true since this article is only discussing amateur butch haircuts.

(With side fades, the side hair slowly fades shorter and shorter until the hairline ends, or the shortest clipper number is reached.) Fade is just a slang word for taper or it describes a very short taper cut between #00000(0.2mm) and #000(0.5mm) which are the lengths that "fade" clippers cut at without a guard attached, by flipping the taper lever. Side fade is not a term in general use and is redundant.

(in some cases, clippers are used to shear the hair short on the sides and back of the head, resulting in a short haircut, but not the classic buzz.[citation needed]) The point being made by this sentence is unclear. There is no generally acknowledged "classic buzz."

(A flattop is similar to a buzz cut, with the exception that the hair on the top of the head is not cut as short, and is deliberately styled to stand up.) There is no similarity at all between a flat top and an amateur butch other than both are in the realm of short haircuts. An amateur butch is cut one uniform length on the top of the head and totally conforms to the skull shape. A flat top does not conform to the skull shape, and the hair on the top of the head has tremendous proportional differences in length. (The longest part of the hair in the flattop cut is the front, being one to two inches in height. It is cut to be flat, resulting in a haircut that is square in shape.[2]) This is not needed since this article should be about amateur butch haircuts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MiltonPB (talk • contribs) 18:12, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

There is one version of a major edit for this article below. I am not sure the Victoria Sherrow reference should be kept because it is misleading when it says that a buzzcut can be called a flat top. She has it backwards. A flat top can be called a buzz cut along with a crew cut, butch, brush cut, ivy league etc. In addition she calls a buzz cut extremely short while a flat top which she has defined as the same as a buzz cut can be two inches long at the front which is not extremely short to most people. It is also misleading to say a buzz cut is performed with clippers that do not have a guard in place. Barbers don't use guards because they use professional rotary clippers that have interchangeable blades that can cut from anywhere from 1/200" to 3/4". And with the exception of a burr, butch and brush cut, the other buzz cut styles are cut clipper over comb or free hand with a clipper, not with a clipper blade or guard pressed to the scalp. Then, after naming a buzz cut a flat top, she goes on to say that a buzz cut has another name, an induction cut. And I beg to disagree; because a handful of female celebrities wore a female version of several buzz cut styles does not mean female versions of buzz cuts were generally considered fashionable as a unisex symbol in the 1980's or early 1990's. Bart Simpson clearly wore a flat top. In the 4th paragraph of the article it states that a flat top is similar to a buzz cut with an exception. However, Sherrow has already stated that a buzz cut can be called a flat top which means they are the same and the exception is not minor but major. A flat top is nothing like a butch which is the style being referenced for a buzz cut. This article in its present state is inaccurate and misleading. The photo of a first year Norwich University Cadet getting an induction clipper shave at the beginning of his summer training prior to freshman fall as an example of a typical buzz cut is very misleading. Comments?

'Here is the major edit proposed...

Buzz cut, refers to a variety of short hairstyles cut with electric clippers. Electric clippers emit a buzzing sound, hence the name. Those styles include: burr, butch cut, brush cut, flat top, forward brush, ivy league.

Buzz cuts are popular among men and boys who want a short, low-maintenance hairstyle.

In certain countries, armed forces recruits are given buzz cuts when they enter training, originally to prevent the spread of lice, but now for ease of maintenance, cooling, and uniformity.

A buzz cut may be used to reduce the shock of hair loss when chemotherapy is administered. The hair still falls out but the effect is reduced and so is less traumatic. MiltonPB (talk) 20:28, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

No opinions on the edit proposed back in August 2010?

Just below is a new edit that I propose that clears up that there is no specific style referred to as a buzz cut and indicates the names of the primary styles Victoria Sherrow is referring to as buzz cuts. The other issue is the photo of a Midshipman Candidate at the Naval Academy who has just had almost all his hair clipped off at what appears to be #0A blade length, 3/64." This is shorter than the typical shortest lengths cited for a butch in all the popular barbering textbooks. The photo should include examples of several buzz cut styles so as not to mislead. I don't have such a photo at the moment.

Here is the proposed edit....

Buzz cut refers to a variety of short styles usually designed with electric clippers that emit a buzzing sound. Buzz cut styles include the butch cut, crew cut, and flat top crew cut, also known as the flattop. The top of a buzz cut style may be cut a uniform short length producing a butch cut or into one of several geometric shapes that include the crew cut and flat top crew cut. The back and sides are tapered short, semi-short or medium. A buzz cut can make the face look more defined. Buzz cuts are popular among people who want a short, low-maintenance hairstyle. Buzz cut styles are almost exclusively worn by men and boys.

In many countries, armed forces recruits are given buzz cut styles when they enter training, originally to prevent the spread of lice, but now for ease of maintenance, cooling, and uniformity. MiltonPB (talk) 21:49, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Alas, no comments on the proposed edit above. It has been slightly refined below.

Current Proposed Edit....

Buzz cut refers to a variety of short styles usually designed with electric clippers that emit a buzzing sound. Buzz cut styles include the butch cut, crew cut, and flattop. The top of a buzz cut style may be clipped a uniform short length producing a butch cut or into one of several geometric shapes that include the crew cut and flattop. The back and sides are tapered short, semi-short or medium. Buzz cut styles can make the face look more defined. Buzz cuts are popular with men and boys who want a short, low-maintenance hairstyle.

In many countries, armed forces recruits are given buzz cut styles when they enter training, originally to prevent the spread of lice, but now for ease of maintenance, cooling, and uniformity. MiltonPB (talk) 00:26, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Explanation of June 17 Major Edit

After nearly two years of "talk" with no response, it is time for a major edit of this misinforming entry that seems to stem from a misinterpretation of Victoria Sherrow's somewhat confusing entry in the Encyclopedia of Hair. The very misleading photo of some guy with a clipper shaved head as exemplary of a prototypical "buzz cut" has also been changed to a photo that shows a variety of buzz cut styles. There is no need to explain a crew cut and a flattop in separate paragraphs when those styles have their own linked entries, so those paragraphs have been eliminated. The opinion paragraph regarding the style being fashionable in the 1990's has also been eliminated as it is only speaking of a butch cut which was hardly considered a fashionable style in that era for men or women and was rarely seen. The buzz cut style popular in the 1990's was the flat top. The period of the 20th century when buzz cut styles were fashionable and extremely popular was from the early 1950's through the early to mid 1960's.

Buzz cut refers to a variety of short hairstyles usually designed with electric clippers. Buzz cut styles include the butch cut, crew cut, and flattop. The top of a buzz cut style may be clipped a uniform short length producing a butch cut, into one of several geometric shapes that include the crew cut and flattop, as well as other short styles. The back and sides are tapered short, semi-short, or medium. Buzz cut styles can make the face look more defined. Buzz cuts are popular with men and boys who want a short, low-maintenance hairstyle. In many countries, armed forces recruits are given buzz cut styles when they enter training, originally to prevent the spread of lice, but now for ease of maintenance, cooling, and uniformity. MiltonPB (talk) 19:05, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Have reverted edit by 50.100.209.128 who reverted the article back to the March 31 2012 version that has multiple issues discussed above. MiltonPB (talk) 22:40, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Have reverted unexplained major edits by unsigned editors twice today. The second unsigned edit alleged that the reversion back to the prior version that has been on wikipedia since June of 2012 was vandalism, which it clearly is not. A major edit that completely deletes a prior long standing article should be explained on the talk page. The issues with the version being reverted to are discussed in depth above. These unsigned editors appear to want to promulgate the idea that a buzz cut is a clipper shaved head, when the term refers to a variety of short styles cut with electric clippers. The name stems from the buzzing sound of electric clippers that are typically used to cut these short styles. The March 2012 edition of this article being reverted to stems from a misinterpretation of a poorly written and confusing entry in Victoria Sherrow's "Encyclopedia of Hair" by contributors who had scant knowledge of male hairstyles or barbering by their own words in Talk Page discussion above. Ms Sherrow essentially describes a buzz cut as a crew cut, butch, flat top crew cut and other short style. The misinterpretation seems to stem from where she states the cut is usually done with a clipper without clipper guard.

"The buzz cut, sometimes called a flattop, is an extremely short haircut, usually executed with electric clippers that do not have a comb guard in place.......The top may be cut in the same way or clipped into a geometric shape and arranged so it stands up from the head." http://books.google.com/books?id=9Z6vCGbf66YC&pg=PA75#v=onepage&q&f=false

On its surface and to someone who has scant information of the parameters of a flattop is and ignores her illustrative buzz cut photo of a flat top crew cut, it seems that she is describing a clipper shaved head but to one who has knowledge of these styles and barbering tools it is apparent that the reason the clipper does not have a clipper guard attached is that barbers generally do not use clipper guards even for a butch, but instead use rotary clippers that have blades that snap on and off and cut to the desired length without a clipper guard attached. Rotary clipper blades are made that leave the scalp hair up to 3/4" in length after being cut. A flattop, crew cut and ivy league are not cut with clipper guards since they are not the same length on the top of the head but specific geometric shapes. They are cut free hand, where the clipper blade does not contact the scalp or clipper over comb. The photo she uses in her article entry is clearly a flat top crew cut with the hair at the front hairline about 1.25" in length.

She further states: "The buzz cut was traditionally given to men when they were inducted into the U.S. armed forces- hence its other name "induction cut." http://books.google.com/books?id=9Z6vCGbf66YC&pg=PA75#v=onepage&q&f=false

This statement also adds confusion. The issue is that while a clipper shaved head is currently a standard induction cut for US Armed forces, with the exception of USMC recruits, this is a very recent phenomenon. Traditionally, a crew cut has been the induction cut for US Armed Forces.

"From one inch stubble in front it tapers to a clean shave at the back of the neck." See photos of WWII era induction cut at bottom of page: http://books.google.com/books?id=KkoEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PA89#v=onepage&q&f=false

Definitions in online dictionaries....

American Heritage Dictionary.... buzz·cut or buzz cut (bŭzkŭt′) n. A closely cropped haircut. [From the use of electric clippers instead of scissors.]

Cambridge Dictionary Online... buzz cut noun [C] a crew cut

Merriam Webster Dictionary Online.... crew cut MiltonPB (talk) 02:41, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Another major edit without explanation or talk page discussion has been reverted back to the edition that existed on June 9, 2013 before the first major edit by an anonymous editor without explanation or talk page discussion, for the reasons stated above. The version that existed prior to the major edit on June 9, 2013 was in substance the version that existed since the major edit of June 17 2012, a proposed major edit that had been posted on the talk page for discussion for over two years.

All of the identical major edits without talk page discussion or explanation of June 9-June 14 2013 by an anonymous editor, are not the March 31 2012 edition as stated above, but essentially the September 13, 2011 edition. The major difference is the following paragraph was removed by two editors.

"Floyd's City Barber Shop in Mount Airy was said by Reader's Digest to be the best place in the USA for a buzz cut in 2006.[5] Barber Russell Hiatt said that during the 1950s and 1960s, a buzz cut was the only style but that Beatlemania changed that. Nowadays, about half of all cuts given there are "high and tight".[6]"

The middle sentence: "Barber Russell Hiatt said that during the 1950s and 1960s, a buzz cut was the only style but that Beatlemania changed that." was removed on October 19 2011 by an editor as an "uncited and nonsensical remark" and the remaining parts of the paragraph were characterized by an editor as a blatant advertisement and removed on November 5 2011.

All of the identical major edits without talk page discussion or explanation of June 9-June 14 2013 by an anonymous editor, also contain an external link that was added on January 21 2010 and removed on September 1 2012 after being characterized by an editor as a "link to site that has dubious use and is an ad revenue generator."

Hopefully, the anonymous editor will add to the discussion. MiltonPB (talk) 04:49, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Reverted another major edit without explanation by an anonymous editor. MiltonPB (talk) 20:41, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

References

Wiffle automatically redirects to Wiffle Ball?

Is there a reason why wiffle automatically redirects to Wiffle Ball? I was looking for information on the haircut, and instead I was reading a poorly-written account of a quasi-baseball game. ;) I ended up having to do a search ON GOOGLE to finally end up at THIS page (as a wikipedia search brought me, again, to the Wiffle Ball page). Could someone maybe fix the redirect of 'Wiffle' to go to THIS page instead, or add one of those 'if you're looking for the haircut called wiffle, click here' to that page? Maybe I should post this over on Wiffle Ball too... Kailey elise (talk) 14:44, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Reverted Edits May 7 2016

On May 7, 2016, Sportsfan 1234 reverted four edits without explanation. The first edit answered the "which" tag that had been added on June 27, 2015 listing several major countries around the world - Australia, China, Russia, USA- where military recruits are given buzz cut styles.

Australia: "If I want to get my hair cut before joining what sort of haircut should I get?

The required haircut for a male recruit is a number two all over, so if you want to get your haircut you should choose this style; however, all male recruits will have a haircut in the first week of training, if you have a haircut prior to arrival, you will have it cut again once you get to ARTC." http://www.army.gov.au/Army-life/Army-careers/ARTC-Kapooka/Frequently-Asked-Questions/Full-Time-Frequently-Asked-Questions

China: Images of "China Army Recruits": https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=621&q=China+Army+Recruits&oq=China+Army+Recruits&gs_l=img.12...1597.6740.0.9785.19.13.0.6.6.0.140.1435.0j12.12.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..1.17.1454...0j0i30j0i8i30j0i24.Y7IMSVHdeGo#

Russia: Images of "Russia Military Recruits": https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=621&q=russia+military+recruits&oq=russia+military+recruits&gs_l=img.12...1215.7369.0.11782.24.12.0.12.12.0.162.1487.0j12.12.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..0.23.1550...0j0i10j0i30j0i24j0i10i24.P7jPqR10bgw#imgrc=_

USA: "Haircuts are a rite of passage during military basic training. Almost immediately after arrival, your hair will be cut so short that it almost feels like you wereshaved bald (guys, only)." http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/basic-training-grooming-and-food.html

The second edit deleted that buzz cuts were popular among "males and females" and replaced it with the former language of "men and boys." Buzz cuts clearly are not a popular short hairstyle choice among females, rather pixie cuts are popular among females wanting a short low maintenance style

The third edit added back the lead photo that had been deleted on April 16. The photo shows NROTC Midshipmen wearing a wide variety of buzz cut styles-crew cut, butch, ivy league. It had been replaced with a lead photo of a professional wrestler with a very short burr, a #0A clipper shave that was mislabeled a #1 buzz cut. It is inappropriate to have a photo of a clipper shave as the lead photo for the entry buzz cut when the term refers to a variety of short styles. The third edit also deleted a photo recently added of a guy having his head clipper shaved at #000 or shorter length; also deleted was a photo of another professional wrestler with a painted face wearing an all over burr that appeared to have been cut with a #1 clipper guard. It is misleading to have only photos of burrs/clipper shaves as descriptive of the wide variety of short styles that are referred to as buzz cuts.

The fourth edit added the length an #0A blade leaves the hair, 3/64".

Proposed merge with Induction cut

The induction cut appears to be a specific use case of the buzz cut. Lord Belbury (talk) 20:01, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Oppose, on the grounds that while it is certainly a subset of buzz cut it may be independently notable, just as other types of buzz cut: butch cut, crew cut, flattop, and Ivy League. Klbrain (talk) 19:25, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Closed, given the uncontested objection. Klbrain (talk) 12:40, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Disputed layout changes

User:Sportsfan 1234 disagreed with some of my edits and wanted them taken to the talk page. Those disputed edits are:

• Using an in-focus headshot of Tom Hardy for the lead instead of a blurry full-length photo of David Perron.
• Saying that styles include X, Y and Z instead of or.
• Putting a naval academy photo next to a paragraph that talks about military haircuits. (MOS:IMGLOC says that images "should generally be placed in the most relevant article section".)
• Using a default gallery format rather than setting it to 250x250.

What are the objections here? --Lord Belbury (talk) 21:58, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

The headshot is not a clear photo imo, the David Perron photo is a better example of the subject.

What do you mean by? * Saying that styles include X, Y and Z instead of or.

I have no objection to point 3, except I think all other photos should be together

The gallery at your suggested size is way too small Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 03:45, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Excessive images in gallery in contravention of WP:GALLERY

According to policy, a gallery should "collectively add to the reader's understanding of the subject without causing unbalance to an article or section within an article while avoiding similar or repetitive images, unless a point of contrast or comparison is being made." Having twelve similar photos of men with buzz cuts is not useful. Ideally, the article would have one high-quality photo in the lede; if a gallery is necessary, it should illustrate some sort of contrast; i.e., genders, ages, ethnicities, etc. Otherwise, this starts to look like a "list of people with buzz cuts" article, which also directly violates WP:GALLERY. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 17:12, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

About the Third Opinion request: The request made at Third Opinion has been removed (i.e. declined). Like all other moderated content dispute resolution venues at Wikipedia, Third Opinion requires thorough talk page discussion before seeking assistance. If an editor will not discuss, consider the recommendations which are made here. — TransporterMan (TALK) 17:40, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Taking off my 3O hat, let me just weigh in with this. The gallery here is ridiculous and is the tail wagging the article dog. Though I think it's a somewhat close call on the question of whether WP:GALLERY is violated, I think that it does violate it. But even if it does not, it does not improve the article and it should be removed. That's my !vote towards a consensus to resolve the question of whether it ought to stay or go. If it does stay, and the permissions on those photos allow derivative works, those images should be cut down so that it just shows the haircut without anything more and the names or identification of the individuals wearing the haircut should be eliminated; it would then illustrate just variations on the haircut - which is the importance, if any, of the gallery for this article - without implying importance due to the identity of the wearer (analogous to the idea of reliability not being inherited). If some importance is to be ascribed to the identity of the wearer, perhaps the advocate for the gallery could start a fork article, "People who wear buzz cut haircuts". Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 17:56, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Given the size of this article, I don't think a gallery is warranted at all. I've amended it to two photos; I don't see how those two photos fail to convey to the reader what a buzz cut looks like. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 18:30, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

I disagree, the term accompanies multiple styles which the gallery conveyed. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:46, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

The only different in styles I could see in that gallery was (1) Wrestler Cody Rhodes had a slightly longer buzzcut and (2) Brian Yang (badminton) has bangs with a buzz cut. The former is a bit blurry, and the latter is even blurrier and an awful crop. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 18:54, 1 August 2021 (UTC)