Talk:Battle of Wadi Saluki

Name of the article

Is it accurate to call this a "battle"? A mere 80 terrorists were fighting of Lebanese side, and Israel deployed just 24 tanks. Battle is way to noble name for such a minor event. I would call it a "skirmish".Keverich1 (talk) 18:31, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Why not just "Israeli victory".

After all, the text of the article says that Israel won the battle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by OperationOverlord (talk • contribs) 19:35, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

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Infobox/article

In the article, it is clearly stated that the Israeli forces achieved their target. This differs from what is stated in the infobox, where it says that the outcome of the battle was rather a halt of the advancement of Division 162. I don't think what is said in the infobox can be accurate, as it is not clearly said that the division had clear orders to advance further. The advance would have stopped anyway, as the war was coming to an end at this point. I am not able to access the source used by Freepsbane, and am therefore unable to verify this. Could someone take a look at it? --Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 15:46, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion to delete this article

This article should be deleted. It was never very good and is now in a sad state of neglect with dead or never ever existing sources and tagged since 2010. It also has a highly misleading POV slant, portraying a complete failure as success. This of course could be fixed, but I think it is unnecessary, since the same topic is covered in Operation Changing Direction 11. A redirect will suffice. If there is anything worth salvaging it could moved before the page is buried for ever.

Anybody disagreeing?

Jokkmokks-Goran (talk) 20:32, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

What POV are you refering to? The word "success" never appears in this article, neither does "failure". While I agree this article is indeed in a miserable state, I don't see any neutrality issues. --Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 20:50, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

No big deal. I was referring to this final comment: "Israeli troops managed to fight their way to the top of the hill and storm the Hezbollah positions. After they captured their objective, the Israeli troops withdrew, since Israel approved a UN ceasefire resolution shortly after the battle."

This is simply ridiculous. The objective of this operation was not to occupy the tiny village of Ghandouriya nor "reach" the Litani river but to sweep along the Litani all the way to Tyre and then to mop up remaining Hezballah resistance south of the river. The operation was cut short because of high casualties.

The article also contains unsourced and probably fake claims, like brigade commander Colonel Moti Kidor being wounded in the battle. At least I haven't found that claim anywhere. If someone can supply a credible source I would love to add it to the main article.

There is a substantial crowd here in Wikipedia that wants to describe the Second Lebanon war as an Israeli military success, which would be considered a lunatic fringe in real life. Mainstream Israeli sources - such as Winograd Commission - all describe the war as a huge failure and missed opportunity.

The main thing was however, why have separate articles about Operation Change of Direction as well as one of its main battles? If there would be any piece of info that is worth saving it can be moved to the main article before deletion.

Jokkmokks-Goran (talk) 23:01, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

This article is not about the broader operation, but a single battle. Even though the IDF did not surround Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon, they did capture Wadi Saluki despite stiff resistance just hours before the ceasefire went into effect. While you might claim the offensive itself was a failure, stamping the battle of Wadi Saluki as a Hezbollah victory is simply counterfactual. --Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 00:07, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

If Infantry Nahal forces assigned to conquer the wadi crossings failed in doing so, leading to the tank column being ambushed and completely mauled, compelling IDF to revise its battle plans completely, abandoning the original target, it cannot be described as an Israeli success military victory. Hezballah resistance halted the IDF advance.

Anyway if you believe that this battle indeed was an Israeli victory - and you have sources to support this ridiculous claim - you are welcome to revise the Change of Direction 11 article. My impression however is that you don't know very much about the 2006 war. Jokkmokks-Goran (talk) 00:32, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

You're the only one who have drawn conclusions here. I haven't described this as an Israeli victory nor a defeat, but simply pointed out that claiming Hezbollah won this battle - even though the IDF captured Wadi Saluki - is at best dubious. Please refrain from making such claims, and please refrain from attacking me personally. --Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 17:28, 22 November 2012 (UTC)