Talk:Bad Brains/Archive 1

Homophobia

OK, this is weird... Is H.R. being charged with homophobia, because that's how it seems to be worded. This is the story from some one who has known the band for some time.

Daryl wrote "Bubbles", and in fact the whole "Quickness" album was written without H.R. When H.R. rejoined the band he had only a little bit of time to rewrite the lyrics. He basically didn't change Daryl's very much. Then the charges of Homophobia came up. This combined with some members in the band's open association with Rastafarianism, which is very homophobic. But I must say, that this is a personal choice of own behavior. Many people who are religious or hold beliefs force them on other people, but some don't. One coul be a vegitarian without feeling the need to tell other people "You must be a vegatarian too, or you are a bad person." For those kind of people it's up to lifestyle choices.

Now H.R. was forced in interview after interview to defend the band for not being homophobic, saying that "bubles" was really about raisin awareness in all ways people could pass AIDs, particularly in his case his experiance with drugs. so he was constantly defending the band as not being homophobic, but at some point after the 1000th time of being asked the question, Dr. Know just blew up and had had enough and said something very sarcastic like "Yeah orginally that song was called 'Don't be a Faggot.'" Just for consideration. I don't have any proper sources to cite, other than the horse's mouth itself.--128.59.143.41 05:22, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I think that presenting the entire band as homophobic and Rastafarian is an inncorrect generalization. There was alot of desent in the band about H.R.'s religous stance and interpertation. H.R. wasn't even a Rastafarian at the start of the band. I plan on cleaning up this article in the feature, with factual and citable information. If anyone has the book "Dance of Days: Two Decades of Punk in The Nation's Capital" it has great information on the development of Bad Brains.SleazeeeE 14:11, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Have Dance of Days, etc. It doesn't adequately cover the issue. H.R. was, unfortunately, extremely homophobic. Cite = the tale of the Bad Brains vs. the Big Boys in a number of Big Boys (or Tim Kerr) interviews online, and in Steve Blush's book. Auto movil 14:26, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

The "Whole" band is Rastafarian, but calling Rastafarian homophobic is INCORRECT

In this interview Daryll Jennifer discusses the accusations of homophobia: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/interviews/interviews/darryl_jenifer_of_bad_brains_i_want_to_be_the_soldier_of_my_music.html

I think that the homophobia comment needs to be in the main article. The confrontation between H.R. and Dave Dictor from MDC during the Bad Brains 1982 tour after H.R. found out that Randy Turner from Big Boys was homosexual was well reported and documented. Bad Brains left the tour and initially refused to pay back money lent to them by Big Boys. These are facts, and should be included as such. This should not be a discussion of whether or not the Rastafarian religion is homophobic or whether we should excuse it as it his "religious belief". This should be a discussion of whether or not H.R. is in fact a homophobe and if his homophobia is relevant to a Bad Brains article, and it certainly seems to be yes on both counts. Bad Brains are a great and legendary band, but I think this is an important piece of Bad Brains history and was a big deal when the incident occurred, not having it in the article feels like a whitewash. There are enough sources on the web about this to include it and it is even on the wikipedia entry for MDC. Blashyrkh66 (talk) 11:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

• Contrary to the article before my recent edit, Dictor is not "homosexual". See interview at http://www.markprindle.com/dictor-i.htm --Larrybob (talk) 00:41, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Re: Reverts

I'm reverting edits here because they add a lot of POV content and a few details that aren't factual. Hopefully we can find a happy medium.

The Bad Brains were super-talented musicians, but were one of three all-Black early hXc bands. They were unique in that they had a jazz-fusion background: A lot of very proficient early hardcore bands had different roots (the Dead Kennedys included trained jazz players, but the DK's sound was rooted in '60s surf and pop -- Mission of Burma were classically-trained, etc).

This doesn't take away from the Bad Brains' achievement, but bests and breakthroughs are very hard to pin down in pop music, including early hXc. Example: AoF's "Wait" single is so abstract and stark that I can play it for friends who are modern-classical buffs, and they 'hear' it as an avant-garde classical composition.

Let's try to get together on facts about the Bad Brains. Please start an account so we can communicate on each other's talk pages. -A_M

So what's your point? There were THREE whole all-black bands in punk, so their achievement wasn't so great after all? Pure Hell (from Philly) and New York Niggers (from guess) released one single apiece while extant. Totally obscure. Are those the other 2 bands you're talking about? Neither band is even "hardcore". Bad Brains, to me, remain a singular, awesome entity. The fact that H.R. is totally insane only endears them to me. And what's with the professor approach to "jazz" and "classical" influences? Kids learning to play instruments typically learn all kinds of stuff. Rock is a fusion genre. It should be no more surprising that Bad Brains have jazz influences than upon learning of King Crimson's. 76.105.183.62 (talk) 16:52, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

H.R. Jungle records

Im a fan of Bad Brains who was been Dj'ing a lot of Jungle recently. I wanted to do sets of punk jungle but the stuff is virtually impossible to find. In my searches, though I did find countless Soul Brains authorised Jungle remixes. H.R. has recently released a jungle single (A:Selassie Lives/B:Jah Love released on D'Lux Drops) and apparently has a forthcoming jungle album. Thought you guys would be interested.

Dickies Link

The Dickies link goes to the clothing manufacturer. The band is listed under "THE Dickies."

I believe they should have said the "Slickee Boys", not the Dickies. Bad Brains spent a lot of time with those guys in the late 70's and I believed learned quite a bit from them.

Correct name?

Is the correct name of the band "Bad Brains" or "The Bad Brains"? Usage is somewhat inconsistant. --RoySmith 15:53, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

• This article consistently refers to them as "the" Bad Brains. Everything else I've read about them, though, does not have the "The". Spartacusprime 19:23, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

It's straight up "Bad Brains".

Bad Brains is hardcore, not hXc

I didn't seem them refered to "hXc" in the article, but they are called that here in one of the discussion topics. These days, hardcore and hXc are two different things. All these 80s punk bands with heavy sides, such as Minor Threat, VOID, Black Flag, Bad Brains, that's hardcore. While hXc is supposed to stand for hardcore, it's always applied to screamo bands. Screamo should not be classified as hardcore. This is just a remainder I guess, Bad Brains should not be referred to as hXc.

What? I've NEVER heard that "hXc" is only for screamo. People used hXc, HXC, or HxC as an abbreviation for "hardcore" long before there were any screamo bands whatsoever. --Jamiem 21:01, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

It means straight edge, dude. Screamo blows bubbles. 76.105.183.62 (talk) 16:57, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

HxC is a straight edge hard core band like Minor Threat not like Bad Brains

Minor Threat was always straight edge.

- you guys are arguing ove 3 letters. yes hardcore has pulled a full 180 on what it used to be. but the roots are still there. if its not straight edge hardcore then its just straight up hc

Which Bob Marley concert?

It is said the whole band converted to Rastafari by being inspired after a Bob Marley concert. Does anyone know which concert it was? Thanks -- CdaMVvWgS 22:47, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

EPs

Why no listing of BB 7" ep's such as "Pay to Cum" on the discography? --- added pay to cum page, it is listed under singles --- And who in their right mind would call "Rise" one of the Bad Brains' strongest albums???

Failed GA

As of 12 October 2006, I am making a speedy failing for this article to reach Good Article status, per WP:WIAGA, because of the following fatal reasons:

1. This article is totally unsourced. Please provide your reliable sources according to WP:CITE to support the three pillars of Wikipedia: neutral point of view, no element of original research and verifiable. I've put a template in this article for editors to fill in their references. Please do not consider it as discouraging.
2. All of the images used are copyrighted and no fair use rationale given. Please provide images suitable for Wikipedia, per WP:ICT, or give fair use rasionale, per WP:FAIR.

If all of those matters above have been fixed, this article can be renominate it again. Cheers. — Indon (reply) — 13:46, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Black Dots

Didn't see this in the discography. I understand it is a release of early recordings? Gaohoyt 06:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Mosley or Mosely

Both of theese surnamnes are used for Chuck. Maybe they're not the same Chuck, but if it is the same only one surnamne should be used. -- Najoj 09:30, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

File:P04421wot23.jpg

Discography

This discography needs major attention. If no one objects, I will start editing and post it when it is complete. Joshuah Hounshell 00:16, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Soul Brains

This is pure surmise, but as I understand it there was falling out between HR and the band's manager Anthony Countey, who in turn was likely protecting the rest of the band's interests. Possibly an accounts issue. Anyway HR couldn't fit in to the setup. He went off to Los Angeles and found himself a new manager, whose name escapes me at present. They then proceeded to hire the rest of the band effectively to play as his backing band in the tour. Since this was not directly Bad Brains business Countey was not involved and thus didn't have to account the money. Wwwhatsup (talk) 04:44, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I Thought It was COMMON KNOWLEDGE That Madonna Owned the name after they left HER Label and they Didnt Own thier own name for the Years they were "Soul Brains" after they got thier name back they were legally in a position to be "Bad Brains" . Lets be REAL sounds good on paper but is far from accurate. Madonna Owned thier name and that is embarrassing apparently. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.196.165.107 (talk) 14:38, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Delete "Controversy" section?

I propose the "Controversy" section be deleted. The whole thing reads as a rant, of interest to only a few, and is of no major importance to the band and its music. Gaohoyt (talk) 00:33, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. I thought I was totally objective, gave both sides of the issue (most of my quotes were from members of the band, including the newer 2007 interview with Darryl Jennifer where he distanced himself from the earlier remarks), never included my own feelings and footnoted many, many references. This section is not piece about my opinions of Bad Brains, it is researched facts about them. It is also obviously of interest to many people - note that it is the most mentioned thing on this talk page, has only been up for a day and is already being talked about here, and more importantly was topic of significant discussion about the band earlier in their career, so I think it is totally relevant to a historical discussion about them. This is a band whose message and lyrics are important to a lot of their fans, so ideology is significant.

The Bad Brains wikipedia entry is not just an article about the music of the band, but of the band's history, and it is important to contain all relevant information about a band, especially one of this significance. As I already stated, this was something that I remember being talked about a lot back then, both during the early 80's and later when Quickness was released, and frankly I was surprised that it was not already in this entry. It would be like having a wikipedia entry on Judas Priest and not including the "subliminal message" trial, which was big news at the time; or having entries about The Mentors, Frank Zappa or Prince and not mentioning the PMRC.

This is not a fanboy page about Bad Brains and how awesome they and their music is, this is supposed to be an encyclopedic entry about them that I would assume should contain as much factual information about them as possible - good or bad. I respect where you are coming from, but I think that glossing over facts that may be construed as negative is not telling the truth and not creating a fair, objective page, but a fluff piece.Blashyrkh66 (talk) 02:54, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Disagree. Controversy was a big fuel for the fire of hardcore and Bad Brains were a hot topic. Kids were like, "they rock and they're black, but they gaybash, but its their religion, but they smoke dope." And it just blew their minds. 76.105.183.62 (talk) 16:59, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• The content shouldn't be deleted, but it should be merged into the main history/biography section. Take it from me, this kind of section will significantly hinder the success of any future FAC. And add some reliable sources. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 00:46, 23 March 2009 (UTC))

Dance of Days

The book Dance of Days, about the DC punk scene, should be examined for better citations than are currently given on this page -too much use of personal web pages.--Larrybob (talk) 01:28, 9 February 2009 (UTC)