Talk:Atul Kumar (chemist)

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Keep, 17 August 2015, see discussion.
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Previously deleted[edit]

A previous article on this person was deleted in 2014: see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Atul Kumar (2nd nomination). PamD 19:42, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Article title and content issues[edit]

I looked at the top 15 famous Indian scientists, and didn't see his name. He received the Padma Shri in 2007. This us the fourth highest civilian award. C. N. Manjunath received the Rajyotsava Prashasti that is the second highest. Asides from just giving every scientist an article what is this person"s "claim to fame" backed by reliable secondary sources?

This is a biographical article that is bound by the Wikipedia community and the WMF to ascribe to a higher standard of sourcing. I have not yet looked into the deleted article to see what is what but I have concerns. I looked at the list of top 75 scientists, and he is not listed, also not in the list of scientists.

A google search brought up many names like Indian actor-director Atul Kumar, a climate researcher, and Atul Kumar Agrawal, associated with the Central Drug Research Institute.

A research scientist does research and pubfacts will print these "research papers" so this is not something especially notable. The Atul Kumar that is referenced as having 45 patents shows only 42 in the reference. The reference, from the "Official website at CSIR" is also inappropriately used as it is also listed (correctly) as an external link. Every single patent listed in the official website shows this person to be associated with other names as co-patent holders. This lends to original research and possible legal issues. If a subject is part of a research group, and members of the group are listed as patent holders with him (or her) then this is misleading at best. Under Honors at the website: Organic Chemistry Portal listed our publication SYNLET 2008(6): 883-885 as distinguish paper. The paper shows two names Atul Kumar*, Ram Awatar Maurya. The asterisk by the name Atul Kumar* leads to a note: *"Medicinal and Process Chemistry Division, Central Drug Research Institute, Lucknow 226 001, India". The paper then shows "A. Kumar, R. A. Maurya, Synlett, 2008, 883-885.".

What we have here is a WP:Coat rack article. Atul Kumar is the coat rack covered (the coat) by the company CSIR-CDRI. Other coats, the research team and co-patents holders, have been dropped on the floor by the article to give the subject more prominence. We end up with a biography of a living parson that is a under-sourced with only primary references or publications that are only found in one area like pubfacts or Tetrahedron Letters but that has no actual mainstream media coverage, possibly one or a couple of local mentions (not in this case), with no secondary coverage at all. Otr500 (talk) 11:03, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Request to make major change in article[edit]

This person shares his name with the Padma Shri awardee 2007 Prof Dr Atul Kumar who is an eminent person in medicine and has done notable work in ophthalmology and is internationally recognised and honored with national awards of very high rank like Padma Shri. I request the editors to replace the content of this current page to the page linked here : Draft:Prof._Dr._Atul_Kumar_(ophthalmologist) so that a biography is ensured on an eminent person and no confusion exists in weblogs regarding sharing of name by the two people. Also, I agree with the content issue raised by above user that " Asides from just giving every scientist an article what is this person"s "claim to fame" backed by reliable secondary sources?". Please do this action to save the title for the actual deserving Dr Atul Kumar from Delhi AIIMSDryg.90 (talk) 06:28, 24 September 2017 (UTC)dryg.90[reply]

Thanks for disentangling details of someone else who shares the same name! There is currently a WP:CONSENSUS that the chemist is notable enough to merit an article (see most recent AFD, linked at top of talkpage). Therefore you can't simply replace the existing article about him with an article about someone else of that name, but instead it would have to be moved to a different name. And for licensing reasons, we're not allowed to cut'n'paste content to new pagenames, but instead must actually "rename the page itself". DMacks (talk) 07:12, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for analyzing the issue and helping resolve it. There exist links on the page of Padma Shri Awardee lists to this person. Instead of editing on multiple pages to change the link, one could have thought of editing the page content with the actual award winner who deserves to be linked to the page dedictaed to him. That was my concern.Dryg.90 (talk) 07:20, 24 September 2017 (UTC)dryg.90[reply]

Sounds like we will have to check all of Special:WhatLinksHere/Atul_Kumar to make sure they point to the correct person. That should wait until we figure out where each person's page will be located. WP:MULTIDABS is key, and that depends on how/if we determine who is more worthy. Or else creating a page for a third person with this name, perhaps the director of Trivial Disasters ([1]) would give a third, and make it easier. DMacks (talk) 08:01, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

List of Padma Shri award recipients (2000–2009) no longer points here. That should probably have been the first step... --Muhandes (talk) 09:26, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Request to change the name of the article[edit]

The article name must be changed to Atul Kumar (the chemist). He shares his name to Atul Kumar, the ophthalmologist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atul_Kumar_(ophthalmologist). In such a case, 'Atul Kumar' will become an ambiguous term in Wikipedia. One can easily guage the claim to fame of Atul Kumar (ophthalmologist) which seems to be above Atul Kumar (chemist) giving credit to the national award and international fellowships won by the former. So the title must be retitled to serve justice to the actual Padma Shri winner Atul Kumar (ophthalmologist described here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atul_Kumar_(ophthalmologist) Dryg.90 (talk) 16:30, 24 September 2017 (UTC)dryg.90[reply]

I already added a hatnote prior to your request so there is no rush. There are two possibilities:

1) One of the two scientists is the primary topic. If you believe this is the case please follow WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY and establish which one.

2) there is no clear primary topic. In this case we will use WP:2DABS.

Anyway, please do the homework and tell us what you want. --Muhandes (talk) 17:52, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to go ahead and say neither names are a "primary topic": both are relatively low-profile yet respectable academics, and there are several other Atul Kumars whom could plasusibly meet WP:GNG requirements (or at least inclusion on a disambiguation page): Special:WhatLinksHere/Atul_Kumar indicates an handballer (India at the 2014 Asian Games), an actor (Talvar (film), Love Marriage (TV series)), and a cyclist( Cycling at the 2010 Commonwealth Games – Men's road time trial). Atul Kumar should be a disambiguation page. --Animalparty! (talk) 01:45, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Done --Muhandes (talk) 05:55, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]