Talk:Atmosphere of Jupiter/Archive 1

Comments

• The composition of the atmosphere of Jupiter is similar to the composition of the planet as a whole.

It is unclear that as a whole means. add a note or something. Nergaal (talk) 22:51, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

• How is the boundary between "soil" and atmosphere defined? Solid/gas? Nergaal (talk) 23:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Soil!!? There's no soil. There is no boundary defined, and the atmosphere is believed to become thicker and thicker without any phase shift, since the temperatures and pressures are hypercritical so that gas-liquid phase shifts aren't defined. However there is a "standard elevation" defined so that 5 atmospheres' pressure defines elevation 0. Jupiter is probably fluid from top to centre. Said: Rursus (☻) 20:31, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• Table: use background colors that mimic the color of the zones; also add the relative direction in which the zone moves. Nergaal (talk) 23:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
• The Galileo probe recorded wind speeds of up to 220 m/s (nearly 800 km/h), increasing lower down.

What is increasing lower down supposed to mean?

It means that the winds are greater the closer to the center you go. Wabbott9 (talk) 03:39, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

RJH on the Great Red Spot

Before this article was created, RJH left me a few hints on how to improve "Great Red Spot". They should still be useful: Serendi^podous 11:13, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

There are a couple of significant paragraphs with no references: "It is not known..." and "As the hot gases that...". The "Structure" section doesn't talk about the fine-scale structure of the system.[1][2] Higher level of difficulty: the final section seems inadequately developed; it makes no mention of Rossby solitons or other models. Also, if these storm systems can last such a long time, why is there no corresponding red spot in the other hemisphere?

I hope this was helpful.—RJH (talk) 16:18, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree that much work is needed to bring this article to GA or FA standards. Ruslik (talk) 14:44, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, I was going to work on this but it is clear that I don't have enough background to fill in the dynamics part... Nergaal (talk) 22:20, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Why all those citations?

Why are all those citations needed in the intro section? At the very least:

Jupiter's core is much hotter than the outer parts of its atmosphere

Everybody knows that! This is valid for all planets and stars in the solar system. This is so well known that it doesn't need any citation, and for those who doubt it: compress a plastic bag of air fast, and feel for yourself on your fingers: is it warmer or colder than before? Said: Rursus (☻) 20:37, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Ha? Stars? Don't those have fusion, while planets don't? Anyways, your example has absolutely no relevance to this case since planets are simply not plastic air bags and they were not compressed fast either. Nergaal (talk) 00:12, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

He used plural when refering to stars... Where is thais second/more star in the System of SOL,--Jakezing (talk) 01:16, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Cloud volcano

I heard in a documentary the other day that because Jupiter's main source of energy is from its interior rather than from the Sun, and thus its vortices form in regions of high pressure than low, as this article explains, it is better to think of them as volcanoes than as hurricanes. This is a useful analogy and I would like to include it but I can't find a written source for it. Serendi^podous 17:46, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Anti-cyclonic vortices correspond to regions of the upwelling. However they thought to be shallow. So they are not analogs of vulcanoes. Ruslik (talk) 05:46, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Comments

Per Ruslik's request, I'm doing a copy edit/read-through of this article. I've inserted a number of comments in the article itself, but some are better suited to the talk page:

1. Is the abbreviation GRS (for Great Red Spot) really helpful? Where variety is desired, English phrases like "the spot", "the anticyclone", and "the storm" could be used when clear in context instead of an abbreviation, I think.

   The storm is a different phenomenon, and there are a lot of spots and anticylones in the atmosphere of Jupiter. So when a precise reference to GRS (yes, I use this term) is necessary the only options available are Great Red Spot or GRS. Ruslik (talk) 16:29, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

2. There is some overciting. The second paragraph of the composition section, for example, cites Atreya et al 2003 8 times without citing any other sources; I think one citation at the end of the paragraph might be good enough there. I've removed some, but not where there might be any disagreement.

   I would rather have more than one if there are numbers cited - though 8 might be a bit too much Nergaal (talk) 19:39, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

3. A schematic diagram of the vertical structure (similar to that in Earth's atmosphere) would be nice.

   I am going to make it soon. Ruslik (talk) 16:24, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

4. In vertical structure, there's a comment that the temperatures in the thermosphere are not fully explained: Why? Are these higher than expected, or lower? What temperatures are predicted by the models described later in the paragraph?

That's as far as I'm going to get for now (through vertical structure); I'll try to get through the rest in the next few days. This is a nice article, btw. —Alex (ASHill | talk | contribs) 19:12, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Further comments (through Dynamics):

1. Zones, belts and jets: Some sort of transition into the subsection "Specific bands" would help just to say "The specific bands are each described in detail here." The table in that section is also mostly redundant with the figure ("idealized illustration of Jupiter's bands") and the text in "Specific bands"; I'd probably remove the table. In fact, the entire "specific bands" subsection is a highly jargonny description that disturbs the flow of an article that otherwise reads very well; there are a lot of short paragraphs, including a couple one-sentence paragraphs. I think the section is helpful (all that detail is fun!), but a bit of transition should help it fit in better.
2. Shallow models: There's a stretch in the middle of the paragraph that's rather heavy in unexplained jargon, going from Rhines scale (which is nicely defined) to dispersion relation to Rossby waves (neither of which are defined). Could that be reworded without the jargon?

   I expanded this part. Ruslik (talk) 08:54, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

—Alex (ASHill | talk | contribs) 00:21, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

RJH's commentary

Some issues raised by RJH that I can't fix:

• "The abundances of these chemicals are thought to exceed solar values by a factor of about three." I don't think the Sun is cool enough to have chemical compounds, so this statement seems odd to me. Perhaps I am misunderstanding?

I meant abundances of O, N, S etc. I clarified this. Ruslik (talk) 08:53, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

• Could the article explain why water is thought to originate from comets (rather than being formed by the atmosphere)?

Serendi^podous 06:33, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Vertical structure image

What is with the "-132 km" label? Nergaal (talk) 14:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

What do you mean? font? Ruslik (talk)

In the Image:Structure of Jovian atmosphere.png, right below the blue band for water clouds. Nergaal (talk) 15:19, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

The "-132 km" is explained in the text as being below the 1 bar "surface". I found confusing the diagram's text "The Galileo atmospheric probe stopped transmitting at a depth of 132 km", so I added "...below the 1 bar "surface" of Jupiter". Zirconscot (talk) 03:21, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

I have not managed to work on this article for some time, but looking at it, it looks pretty good. Is there anything else still missing, or the only things left to do are minor touch-ups? Nergaal (talk) 15:19, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I've gone through the first 2 sections and I've left a few clarify tags where the wording is not very precise (I've explained the problems in the tags). I'll continue with the other sections a bit later. Nergaal (talk) 20:18, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't know how, but when I GAN-ed this I've completely missed some whole paragraphs having no references. grr Nergaal (talk) 23:57, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

redspotjr.com

A lot of the material on the page dealing with Red Spot Jr was directly quoted from this page. I have no idea how reliable that page is. Serendi^podous 11:51, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Not espesially reliable in my opinion. Ruslik (talk) 13:05, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Then we're going to have to rewrite the entire section. Serendi^podous 14:14, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

It would be an ok site, but it lists no authority that is in charge of it - either author or organization. I could be, although not necessary, a random person with enough money and care to buy the site. Nergaal (talk) 15:06, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Information in the article is plausible, but needs better sources. Ingersoll et.al. chapter can be used or Vasavada et.al. Ruslik (talk) 15:44, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I've tidied and reffed everything except the opening paragraphs of "Observational history". Serendi^podous 16:32, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I effing knew it

"Observational History" is plagiarised from this book. Serendi^podous 16:45, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

rewrote and referenced. Serendi^podous 11:26, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

External links

The section was OK except that it seemed to have too many entries. Actually I should have used the {{cleanup}} tag. Nergaal (talk) 16:30, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I removed most of them because they were now referenced in the article itself. Serendi^podous 16:42, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

FAC instead?

I have not gone through the whole article in detail, but is it realistic to push this for FAC directly? Here are the todo things I can come up with at this point:

• several clarify tags
• wikilink and explain units used (i.e. microbars) and use nbsp
• explain jargon
• what did comet Shoemaker help with? I bet it lifted some compounds from the lower layers which helped understand the structure of those layers
• I think it is better to use only bar as a unit and use multiplices instead of micro- and nano- labelings

Nergaal (talk) 17:21, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Be sure to indicate where you feel jargon is still unexplained. As regards going to FA, I think this article can take it, but I'm often wrong when it comes to judging FA preparedness. Serendi^podous 17:35, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I disagree as far as losing milli- and micro-. Those are well known scientific prefexes, and this is supposed to be a scientific article. Those who don't know what microbar means probably don't know what bar means either. Serendi^podous 18:46, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Atmosphere of Jupiter/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

   There are a number of verify tags that should be resolved. Further there are a number of MoS errors; these include: the specific bands should neither be bold or italicized, while Pioneer 10 and Galileo are at least in one instance not in italics. The link "South Equatorial Belt" redirect back to this article, and should be removed. Why are AsH3, GeH4 mentioned by chemical symbol instead of name, like the other compounds? Why in the middle of the article suddenly use non-scientific measurements: "390 km/h (240 mph)"?

   I think the name of the bands should actually be italicized. Nergaal (talk) 20:29, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

   While I know not concerning outside the earth, I would believe a geographic figure would not be italicized, based on WP:ITALICS. However, if you are confident in your cause I will let it pass in good faith. Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:48, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   There are [citation needed] tags in the document; these must be seen to.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

   The article is heavily edited, making a copyedit during review impractical. However, they all seem to be constructive edits.

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   There are lots of forced image sizes. These should in general never be used in mainspace—with the exception of the first image as well as specific diagrams that are not readable at 180px. I would ask that all non-critical images have the forced image size removed, and those in portrait direction instead tagged with "upright". If it is necessary to force the image size on some of the diagrams, please choose one width only (which should probably be 300px). I have corrected this in my copyedit.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   A few matters that must be seen to, and the article will pass. If there are any questions or comments, do not hesitate to state them. Arsenikk ^(talk) 19:23, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I've dealt with the MoS issues you've mentioned. I haven't found any verify tags, and the only forced image I can see in the text is the atmosphere chart, which needs to be big to be seen. I've contacted this page's main editor about the tag. Serendi^podous 20:20, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, my fault; I meant clarify. There are two of these, and they should either be rewritten, or assumed good enough and removed. As for the image sizes, I took the freedom to correct them myself.

I fixed one of them. Serendi^podous 21:04, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, I fixed remaining issues. I also increased the size of the one of the charts, because it was unreadable. Ruslik (talk) 09:49, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

All executed. Congratulations with a Good Article! Arsenikk ^(talk) 15:45, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Color vs composition

I don't think the article presents well enough where does the color come from. I believe it states clearly that the ammonia ice is white, but what about the red and brown colorings? Or I might simply be skipping it... Nergaal (talk) 03:07, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Nobody knows. Serendi^podous 03:32, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

It is not like there are hundreds of molecules! I find it hard to imagine that no probe took the spectra of the GRS to see the predominant molecular composition there. Also, not many of the molecules listed here have any remote chance to be colored as ices, unless there are some chemical reactions happening due to the turbulences. Nergaal (talk) 03:43, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Also, if it is not actually known, then this should be added as a note in the text so a reader would be able to understand it. Nergaal (talk) 03:44, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

<quote>The exact nature of chemicals that make Jovian zones and bands so colorful is not known, but they may include complicated compounds of sulfur, phosphorus and carbon</quote>

<quote>It is not known exactly what causes the Great Red Spot's reddish color. Theories supported by laboratory experiments suppose that the color may be caused by complex organic molecules, red phosphorus, or yet another sulphur compound.</quote> Serendi^podous 04:25, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

I guess I need some sleep. Anyways, I believe a sentence like "the white is mostly due to NH3 ice... and the red is not surely known..." should be added somewhere in the intro. Nergaal (talk) 04:36, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Great Red Spot

I propose we should have a seperate article about the GRS. It is very prominent and should have an article.--Fisherman Vs. Ghostface (talk) 12:10, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Great Red Spot was merged into this article several month ago. Ruslik (talk) 13:13, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the proposal, because both Jupiter and Atmosphere of Jupiter include detailed GRS content embedded in long (75-90k) articles. I would help start such an article, having spun off quite a few over the years, but am choosing not to be bold because both Jupiter and Atmosphere of Jupiter are featured articles, which means the separate article would take a lot of work and probably a lot of discussion. The solution: create Great Red Spot using the overlapping forked content from the GRS sections in Jupiter and Atmosphere of Jupiter, then replace those two overlapping sections with a common summary prefaced with a {{main}} link to the now-separate Great Red Spot. 66.167.48.144 (talk) 06:37, 6 April 2009 (UTC). P.S. for reference, here are the two overlapping sections as of 06:37, 6 April 2009 (UTC).

from Jupiter

The best known feature of Jupiter is the Great Red Spot, a persistent anticyclonic storm located 22° south of the equator that is larger than Earth. It is known to have been in existence since at least 1831, and possibly since 1665. Mathematical models suggest that the storm is stable and may be a permanent feature of the planet. The storm is large enough to be visible through Earth-based telescopes.

The oval object rotates counterclockwise, with a period of about six days. The Great Red Spot's dimensions are 24–40,000 km × 12–14,000 km. It is large enough to contain two or three planets of Earth's diameter. The maximum altitude of this storm is about 8 km above the surrounding cloudtops.

Storms such as this are common within the turbulent atmospheres of gas giants. Jupiter also has white ovals and brown ovals, which are lesser unnamed storms. White ovals tend to consist of relatively cool clouds within the upper atmosphere. Brown ovals are warmer and located within the "normal cloud layer". Such storms can last as little as a few hours or stretch on for centuries.

Even before Voyager proved that the feature was a storm, there was strong evidence that the spot could not be associated with any deeper feature on the planet's surface, as the Spot rotates differentially with respect to the rest of the atmosphere, sometimes faster and sometimes more slowly. During its recorded history it has traveled several times around the planet relative to any possible fixed rotational marker below it.

In 2000, an atmospheric feature formed in the southern hemisphere that is similar in appearance to the Great Red Spot, but smaller in size. This was created when several smaller, white oval-shaped storms merged to form a single feature—these three smaller white ovals were first observed in 1938. The merged feature was named Oval BA, and has been nicknamed Red Spot Junior. It has since increased in intensity and changed color from white to red.

from Atmosphere of Jupiter

The Great Red Spot (GRS) is a persistent anticyclonic vortex on the south border of the South Equatorial belt. It appears to be a remarkably stable feature, and most sources concur that it has been continually observed for 300 years.

The GRS rotates counterclockwise, with a period of about six Earth days or 14 Jovian days. Its dimensions are 24–40,000 km west–to–east and 12–14,000 km south–to–north. The spot is large enough to contain two or three planets the size of Earth. At the start of 2004, the Great Red Spot had approximately half the longitudinal extent it had a century ago, when it was 40,000 km in diameter. At the present rate of reduction it would become circular by 2040, although this is unlikely because of the distortion effect of the neighboring jet streams. It is not known how long the spot will last, or whether the change is a result of normal fluctuations.

According to a study by scientists at the University of California, Berkeley, between 1996 and 2006 the spot lost 15 percent of its diameter along its major axis. Xylar Asay-Davis, who was on the team that conducted the study, noted that the spot is not in danger of disappearing because "[v]elocity is a more robust measurement because the clouds associated with the Red Spot are also strongly influenced by numerous other phenomena in the surrounding atmosphere."

Infrared data has long indicated that the Great Red Spot is colder (and thus, higher in altitude) than most of the other clouds on the planet; the cloudtops of the GRS are about 8 km above the surrounding clouds. Furthermore, careful tracking of atmospheric features revealed the spot's counterclockwise circulation as far back as 1966—observations dramatically confirmed by the first time-lapse movies from the Voyager flybys. The spot is spatially confined by a modest eastward jet stream (prograde) to its south and a very strong westward (retrograde) one to its north. Though winds around the edge of the spot peak at about 120 m/s (430 km/h), currents inside it seem stagnant, with little inflow or outflow. The rotation period of the spot has decreased with time, perhaps as a direct result of its steady reduction in size.

The Great Red Spot's latitude has been stable for the duration of good observational records, typically varying by about a degree. Its longitude, however, is subject to constant variation. Because Jupiter does not rotate uniformly at all latitudes, astronomers have defined three different systems for defining the latitude. System II is used for latitudes of more than 10°, and was originally based on the average rotation rate of the Great Red Spot of 9h 55m 42s. Despite this, the spot has "lapped" the planet in System II at least 10 times since the early nineteenth century. Its drift rate has changed dramatically over the years and has been linked to the brightness of the South Equatorial Belt, and the presence or absence of a South Tropical Disturbance.

It is not known exactly what causes the Great Red Spot's reddish color. Theories supported by laboratory experiments suppose that the color may be caused by complex organic molecules, red phosphorus, or yet another sulfur compound. The GRS varies greatly in hue, from almost brick-red to pale salmon, or even white. The spot occasionally "disappears", becoming evident only through the Red Spot Hollow, which is its niche in the South Equatorial Belt. The visibility of GRS is apparently coupled to the appearance of the SEB; when the belt is bright white, the spot tends to be dark, and when it is dark, the spot is usually light. The periods when the spot is dark or light occur at irregular intervals; as of 1997, during the preceding 50 years, the spot was darkest in the periods 1961–66, 1968–75, 1989–90, and 1992–93.

The Great Red Spot should not be confused with the Great Dark Spot, a feature observed near the northern pole of Jupiter in 2000 by the Cassini–Huygens spacecraft. Note that a feature in the atmosphere of Neptune was also called the Great Dark Spot. The latter feature was imaged by Voyager 2 in 1989, and may have been an atmospheric hole rather than a storm and it was no longer present in 1994 (although a similar spot had appeared farther to the north).

Actually, only this much of the Jupiter section

The best known feature of Jupiter is the Great Red Spot, a persistent anticyclonic storm located 22° south of the equator that is larger than Earth. It is known to have been in existence since at least 1831, and possibly since 1665. Mathematical models suggest that the storm is stable and may be a permanent feature of the planet. The storm is large enough to be visible through Earth-based telescopes.

The oval object rotates counterclockwise, with a period of about six days. The Great Red Spot's dimensions are 24–40,000 km × 12–14,000 km. It is large enough to contain two or three planets of Earth's diameter. The maximum altitude of this storm is about 8 km above the surrounding cloudtops.

Even before Voyager proved that the feature was a storm, there was strong evidence that the spot could not be associated with any deeper feature on the planet's surface, as the Spot rotates differentially with respect to the rest of the atmosphere, sometimes faster and sometimes more slowly. During its recorded history it has traveled several times around the planet relative to any possible fixed rotational marker below it.

is to do with the GRS proper; the rest is to do with other storms which are covered in other sections of the atmosphere of Jupiter article. Serendi^podous 15:49, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. You didn't explicitly comment on whether Great Red Spot should be a separate article. 67.100.126.13 (talk) (same as 66.167.48.144 (contribs)) 23:42, 6 April 2009 (UTC).

At the moment, no. It's not big enough. If it were to be massively expanded then yes I could see it as a separate article, but not as it is. Serendi^podous 08:01, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:Notability "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article". furthermore, there is a separate article in 30 other Wikipedias. The GRS meets the notability criteria, and therefor deserves its own article, regardless of how "big" it is. I think the redirection is against the wikipedia Policy 85.65.69.166 (talk) 15:07, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

All creating a separate article would do is move what's here over to another page, so it wouldn't really make much difference. 15:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I think it will look like this [3] 85.65.69.166 (talk) 15:43, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

There's nothing in that article that isn't either in the "Great Red Spot" or "Great Red Spot studies" sections. Serendi^podous 16:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

It makes absolutely no sense not having a separate article for the Great Red Spot. People search for "Great Red Spot" and not "Atmospheres of Jupiter" when they would like to find out about the storm. I am creating a new page for the Great Red Spot using 85.65.69.166's great example. Please Serendi^podous, if you can't understand the need for separate page, you may want to try a different hobby.24.1.29.141 (talk) 22:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC) adding my username Iksnyrk (talk) 02:33, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Indeed I am surprised to learn that the article has only now been created. Rothorpe (talk) 23:15, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

What you have done borders on vandalism. Now "Great Red Spot" redirects to your article, but "great red spot" redirects here, and "Talk:Great Red Spot" redirects to this talk page. And what, exactly, is in that article that isn't in this article? Nothing. It's a fork that merely duplicates infromation already in this article. In fact, since it is an earlier version, this article actually contains information that article doesn't. If you're planning to expand the article (by at least 50%), then fine. By all means, fork away. But so far all I've seen is a very lazy and half-baked de-merge. Serendi^podous 06:59, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

WP:Merge says that an article can be merged into a broader article if the former requires background material or context from the latter in order for readers to understand it. This is the case here. The only justification for reviving the Great Red Spot article is a significant expansion of it. So, I will be watching with great interest how you will do this. Ruslik_Zero 15:20, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

The fact of the matter is that the "Great Red Spot" article would have been expanded if it wasn't buried within an already inundated article. The current system you two created only confuses people from understanding material which is already somewhat complex to begin with. Let's try to encourage participation and education by liberating the "Great Red Spot" instead of hiding it away. Iksnyrk (talk) 04:26, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

The fact of the matter is that you don't want to do any expanding. You don't even want to properly break the article. You claim that others would expand the article if it were "liberated", but those others would invariably be "us two". Unless you're willing to put the effort in, you're not in a position to complain. Serendi^podous 05:08, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

So I Googled for Great Red Spot again, but was once again reminded that I can't find a Great Red Spot article because someone wants people to read a bunch of atmospheric information first. You still don't see how ridiculous this is? The only concrete reason you have for keeping the GSR trapped here is because of your own personal opinion...which, I believe, is not an acceptable reason according to WP:Merge. I do not need to know the elemental abundances relative to hydrogen in order to understand the GSR. I will once again split the article, if no valid argument against doing show is provided. Iksnyrk (talk) 08:07, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Remember, we can definitely still have a little blurb about the GSR in this article, but just not the whole thing. If Paris Hilton can have her own Wikipedia page, than I'm pretty sure the Great Red Spot deserves one too. [User:Iksnyrk|Iksnyrk]] (talk) 08:12, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Given your past attempts to split this article, I would suggest leaving it to other editors, since you obviously don't know how to do it properly. Merging the topic isn't about what anything "deserves". The Great Red Spot isn't some god worthy of worship. The issue is that the Great Red Spot is not an individual entity but a part of a much larger and far more complex system, and much of the system's complexity must be explained to fully understand the Great Red Spot. If you look up to the top of this talk page, you can see reference to Rossby waves and alternate models, which editors demanded be included in the GSR article. But since these phenomena apply to all vortices on Jupiter, not just to the GSR, it made more sense to include them in a more general article on Atmosphere. For the GSR to become its own article, a LOT of information from this article will need to be moved over to it, and I don't see you taking that job on. Not to mention that it would result in a great deal of needless repetition. Serendi^podous 08:41, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Given your continual arrogance about this subject, I would suggest removing yourself from this article. Your own personal biases are interrupting your ability to edit efficiently. This isn't about me (or what I can or cannot do), this is about making Wikipedia better...which is obviously something you have no concern for. Even Wikipedia recommends splitting this article, but you won't even listen to them... "This page is 87 kilobytes long. It may be appropriate to split this article into smaller, more specific articles. See Wikipedia:Article size." Iksnyrk (talk) 19:45, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I left a section on the Great Red Spot in that article. The Great Red Spot just has enough independent notability (and a rather bulky section) that I thought making it into an independent article would be the best solution.--Novus Orator 01:46, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Core

Does Jupiter's core revolve akin to Venus, but slower? That'd explain some "stationary" effects in the atmosphere... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Msukanen (talk • contribs) 01:56, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Oxygen

"The oxygen, nitrogen, sulfur and noble gas abundances in Jupiter's atmosphere exceed solar values by a factor of about three". However in the table I read "0.033 ± 0.015 (12 bar)\0.19–0.58 (19 bar)" for oxygen, which is much less than 3. Maybe you mean Carbon (2.9 ± 0.5)? --Anton Gutsunaev (talk) 22:43, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

This can't be right

"Zones, which are colder than belts, correspond to upwellings, while belts mark descending air." Since when are colder gases less dense than warmer ones? This sentence can't be right.Eregli bob (talk) 04:27, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

It is not necessary true that upwelling requires warm air. There are Extratropical_cyclones, which are also known as cold-core cyclones. Ruslik_Zero 09:57, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Ambiguity

"The deep structure of vortices is not completely clear." - Word "clear" should be avoided in this context, as less careful readers may interpret it literally as talking about atmospheric visibility or transparency. Something like "The deep structure of vortices is not fully understood" would (ironically) be clearer. -Silence (talk) 21:38, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Oval BA nomenclature unclear

In the first paragraph, second sentence of the Oval BA section, the nomenclature of Oval BA is listed, which includes the name "The Little Red Spot". The final paragraph of this section appears to contradict the first by stating "Oval BA should not be confused with another major storm on Jupiter, the Little Red Spot ...". I would suggest either removing the Little Red Spot name from the first paragraph or more clearly define the difference between the Little Red Spot / Baby Red spot and Oval BA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.144.20.170 (talk) 22:23, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Good point. Changed. Also, in future, please sign your comments with 4 ~ marks and place new comments at the bottom of talk pages rather than the top. Thanks. Serendi^podous 23:03, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Link "Great Red Spot" redirects

The link "Great Red Spot" (near "The largest two spots are") redirects to this page. This is mildly confusing.

Shouldn't the link be changed to "#Great_Red_Spot"?

--Mortense (talk) 14:48, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Links to the great red spot section for me. Oh I see what you mean.Serendi^podous 17:10, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Great Red Spot center is warm

There is a study published in early 2010 with new information about the Great Red Spot: Jupiter's Red Spot has 'warm heart', published in Icarus. Abstract.

Excerpt from the abstract: "An elliptical warm core, extending over 8° of longitude and 3° of latitude, was observed within the cold anticyclonic vortex ... The resulting thermal gradients cause counter-rotating flow in the GRS center to decay with altitude into the lower stratosphere."

There is an interview with one of the astronomers, Leigh Fletcher, in BBC' Science in Action. Direct download URL for the MP3 file The interview is at 01 min 12 secs - 06 min 35 secs.

--Mortense (talk) 15:15, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Sorry it took so long to add. Serendi^podous 13:59, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Carl Sagan's study

Hello, Extraterrestrial life says "Carl Sagan and others in the 1960s and 70s computed conditions for hypothetical amino acid-based macroscopic life in the atmosphere of Jupiter, based on observed conditions of this atmosphere." Could this be added here with more details please? If I understand File:Structure of Jovian atmosphere.png correctly, there may be a range of the atmosphere with temperature and pressure where life could exist (say between 0.1 to 100 bars, and between 250 K to 400 K). Comments? Yann (talk) 17:09, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Red Spot

Hey, I heard from someone Jupiter's Great Red Spot had gone missing. Now ,th is distressed me, so, could someone verify if it is there or not? Thnks. -A Concerned astronomer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.184.133.222 (talk) 00:11, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Jupiter lost a band, not a spot. The spot's still there, and the band has disappeared before, and will come back. Serendi^podous 08:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Unbroken Wikilink

Up at the top of this page is a blurb saying there's a broken section link. I went to fix it, and saw that it HAD been fixed. Since the blurb was added by a bot, I followed the link in the blurb to the bot's page to see if it had instructions for getting rid of the blurb (i.e. would the bot do it eventually?). Apparently the bot isn't working right now, as it doesn't have a host. Would it be appropriate to just delete the blurb from this page since the broken link it talks about has already been fixed? Wabbott9 (talk) 03:57, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Wabbott9 (talk) 15:16, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Deletion of SVG image

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Atmosphere_of_Jupiter&action=historysubmit&diff=402228735&oldid=402227413 "by Borrow-188 dubious - that SVG is 10x larger than JPG - slow loading on slow connection) (undo) " - article text is 558 Kb (File-Save as in browser). Image SVG in PNG mode (in browser) - 82 Kb. Bad quality image in JPEG - 11 Kb. See on all size of the article - 82Kb / 558Kb is 14%. It is not too big, but image is more clear, and its text is good readable. Borrow-188 (talk) 21:59, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing to this. I have reverted myself and the reason was slightly different - poor font choice in the jpg. White font on black background (also with larger symbols) indeed looks much sharper than red on black. Materialscientist (talk) 22:51, 29 December 2010 (UTC)