Talk:Ashland University/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Photos

Need photos to portray AU.McNTracy (talk) 04:07, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Introduction

The school considers Judeo-Christian as the foundation of the educational and social environment of the university.

Judeo-Christian what? Culture? Learning? Cookies? Countersubject 20:01, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

No response, so I took the liberty of changing the sentence to:

The school considers Judeo-Christian values to be the foundation of the educational and social environment of the university.

Countersubject 11:13, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Sources of copyright-violation text

Some of the sources of the previously-included copyright-violation text — [1], [2] and [3] (PDF file)

Assessment

Needs some expansion (I would suggest a history section) and additional sourcing to get to a higher classification. Aboutmovies (talk) 11:57, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Ashland University Logo

I uploaded a logo. ChineseGraduate (talk) 15:46, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

External links modified

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Christian identity

IncrementalImmigrant is insisting that this university is not Christian. The university's mission statement says: "Ashland University, guided by our Christian heritage, is a comprehensive, private university..." "SPIRITUALITY AND FAITH" is the second of the university's values, described as: "Affirms Christian values as a core element of the University’s institutional identity, emphasizing faith in God, moral integrity and respect for the diversity of values and faith of each person in a community of learning." That same "About" webpage has a prominent graphic with a cross and the text "Rooted in CHRISTIAN VALUES." The second pillar of the university's strategic plan is "Our Unique Christian Identity."

The university tries to walk some kind of fine line between being Christian and non-sectarian (e.g., "Ashland University’s identity is simultaneously church-related and officially non-sectarian") but this is completely at odds with their own description of their mission, values, and strategic priorities. It's a disservice to readers - a lie - to omit this from the lede sentence and not describe the university as Christian. ElKevbo (talk) 19:27, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

ElKevbo insists that AU is a Christian university, failing to recognize that while a place my have started as such, that does not mean it remains that way any longer. While AU's mission and vision speak to where AU started, founded by a Christian denomination, it is not longer "Christian", but still values its heritage. A place can engage in its history without its current identity still being framed as such. The only lie and disservice here is that the aforementioned editor, though there have been quite a few editors attempt to remove that label, insists that AU is something it is not. For what reason this user has a motivation for such a "lie" is unclear. What is clear is that under the fast facts of the university, there is an affiliation with the Brethren denomination. However, just like many private institutions, such as Boston University, just because AU is affiliated with a group, does not mean it derives its identity from that group. As such, and yet again, Christian is removed from the lead line as no where does AU self identify as Christian, but rather, AU speaks to its founding. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.123.13.2 (talk • contribs) 14:15, July 1, 2021 (UTC)

It's extremely difficult to believe that an institution that has "Our Unique Christian Identity" as one of the pillars of its current strategic plan and includes the phrase "Rooted in CHRISTIAN VALUES" on its "About" webpage is secular.

It is worth noting that this editor's IP address is an Ashland University IP address. One of the university's administrators also took the time to find my work (!) e-mail address and send me multiple e-mail messages accusing me of being biased against this university and demanding I edit this article in accordance with their opinion. That is clear harassment and is likely to lead to editors being blocked and this article being protected if it continues. ElKevbo (talk) 21:10, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Belief and truth are two different things. ElKevbo can believe what he would like, but just because he does has no bearing on what is truth. ElKevbo is simply edit warring for his own personal reasons. It is also worth noting that many different IP addresses and users not associated with university have attempted to make this edit, whereas ElKevbo has accepted his own beliefs and refuses too accept the edits of other users.

ElKevbo Further, the bifurcation of simply secular or religious shows that as en editor there is a bias in how you have perceived, dichotomized, and generalized how educational institutions may identify. Again, and to the point, a place can be rooted in a tradition and yet not identify in that tradition beyond its historical roots. It seems odd that an institution can note its own history and heritage, yet not claim to be Christian (thus in the about page it notes that it is a private institution, but never claims to be a Christian institution). Does ElKevbo identify any institution that started as Christian institution, but have since moved beyond that identity, as Christian? Would ElKevbo identify Oxford, Harvard, Cambridge, Durham, and more as Christian? Each of these have been religiously affiliated, started, and still house Divinity schools, and yet they are no longer "Christian" institutions.

Further still, no editor has attempted to remove statements further on the wikipedia page, discussing the institutions commitment to his historical values. Each editor that ElKevbo has systematically and categorically denied the changes of, have only removed "Christian" as an adjective to the identity of the university. ElKevbo would do well to see the definition of what a Christian college is noted on Wiki here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_college. If faith integration in courses and curriculum is how a Christian college or university is defined, the burden of proof falls on ElKevbo to show that Ashland University takes this approach through its education. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.207.129.243 (talk) 22:00, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Using multiple accounts to "trick" editors into believing that there are multiple people participating in a discussion is an excellent way to get blocked. And doing so to edit war is an excellent way to get blocked and have an article protected so that unregistered and new editors cannot edit it. Stop it.

You also need to review and comply with our policies about paid editing and conflicts of interest. If it can be reasonably construed that you are being paid by the institution to edit this article - and based on our private communications I can confidently make that claim - then you are required to clearly state your paid relationship. Even if you only have a routine conflict of interest, you should make your conflict of interest transparent to other editors, refrain from editing the article, and make suggestions and requests here in Talk.

To answer your question: Yes, I would consider Oxford, Harvard, and any other institution to be "Christian" if they included the religion as one of the primary areas of focus in their strategic plan and included images and language on their webpages and other documents that explicitly claimed a religious identity.

Setting aside your bizarre hostility and misunderstanding of our policies and practices, I understand your point. Many institutions that were founded by religious orders and organizations have grown beyond their founder's original mission and focus. Many have explicitly cut ties with their founding religion and can make clear, convincing claims of being secular. But some institutions, like this one, have made only half-hearted, confusing moves that allow them to tell some potential students that the institution is secular and everyone is welcome but also allow them to continue having a meaningful relationship with the founding religion and a role for the religion in the institutional priorities and practices. For some institutions it genuinely is arguable whether the institution should be labeled as religious or secular. That just doesn't appear to be the case for this specific university. If you want this institution to be perceived as secular, you need to work with your colleagues to make that apparent. Using sockpuppets to edit war in your employer's Wikipedia article is not the way to go about this. ElKevbo (talk) 22:13, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

It's also worth mentioning that other sources also explicitly refer to this university as a Christian one. For example, in December of 2020 The Marshall Project published a lengthy investigative article titled "How Trump Made a Tiny Christian College the Nation’s Biggest Prison Educator." Several other media outlets picked up that story and published their own versions of it e.g., Open Campus. For what it's worth, Niche also classifies the university as "Christian." ElKevbo (talk) 22:43, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

I concur with El Kevbo here; we follow what reliable sources say, and the RSes label the institution as Christian. The WP:ABOUTSELF sources are more mixed, but those have less weight than the RSes. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 23:46, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

The sources provided, as well as the university's own self descriptions, support describing the institution as "Christian". Paul August ☎ 01:30, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Speaking now as an administrator, IncrementalImmigrant and the IP editors commenting here are instructed to read Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure, and to comply with that policy with their next edits as applicable. Please be aware that Wikipedia articles primarily summarize what reliable, independent sources say about a university or any other organization, not what such an institution says in its own attempts to define or redefine itself. Independent sources always have priority. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:52, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

The explanatory supplement is at WP:INDEPENDENT, btw. El_C 13:17, 4 July 2021 (UTC)