Talk:Anglia Regional Co-operative Society

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History[edit]

(Moved from a user talk page)

Please read http://www.arcs.co.uk/main_society.asp . I don't know how the material originally found its way onto Wikipedia, but you have restored it twice. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 14:02, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you could write to the author requesting permission. In the meantime, please delete the text, and restore it when the permission is posted at OTRS. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 14:36, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I asked you to delete the history section that had been copied from ARCS website. Instead you have edited it. Editing and paraphrasing material that has not been donated under a free license works causes difficulties in building a free encyclopedia. I will delete it again - this is an exception to the three-revert-rule. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 12:00, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not do that. I really haven't got the time to respond to you properly right now. Also, I think the best place for this discussion is the article's talk page. Chrisieboy (talk) 12:16, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is no hurry to respond. In the meantime, it is deleted as a precaution (though in the history.) --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 12:25, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chrisieboy: I don't know how this plagiarised text got into the article. Since you don't have time to discuss now, please just remove the problematic text and we can discuss it at our leisure. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 12:38, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is becoming annoying. Please reinstate the information (before I do). How are you so certain that this constitutes plagiarism? Chrisieboy (talk) 13:29, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is plagiarism because ARCS posted its page in 2004 (or before) but the Wikipedia article was created with identical text in 2007. Why do you think it is compatible with the Gnu Free Documentation License? --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 13:36, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For a start, "Plagiarism is not copyright infringement. While both terms may apply to a particular act, they are different transgressions. Copyright infringement is a violation of the rights of a copyright holder, when material protected by copyright is used without consent. On the other hand, plagiarism is concerned with the unearned increment to the plagiarising author's reputation that is achieved through false claims of authorship" (ie. through lack of attribution). Are you really suggesting that this is the case? If not, I think you need to be careful about the language you use.
Wikipedia, as you are no doubt aware, does not publish original research or thought and source-based research is encouraged. What you have done is simply to wreck this article. Do you actually contribute content or just police others?
In any case, now we have our terminology clarified, can you direct me to where it states that the copyright of this particular text is owned, controlled or otherwise restricted by ARCS? Chrisieboy (talk) 15:18, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do you actually contribute content or just police others? Both. I came here to add a snippet about the web store, and was disappointed to stumble on text copied from elsewhere.
  • can you direct me to where it states that the copyright of this particular text is owned, controlled or otherwise restricted by ARCS? Every Wikipedia edit page says in bold (just below the save page button) : "Do not copy text from other websites without a GFDL-compatible license. It will be deleted." I can't find any license statement on the ARCS website, ergo it is is protected by copyright.
--Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 15:36, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chrisieboy, please explain why you have again restored the History section. I explained my reasons for deletion (above) and you have yet to respond. It looks like a clear copyright infringement to me. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 14:44, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I thought (hoped) you had disappeared! Anyway, I am working on it... Chrisieboy (talk) 16:00, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
To help the two of us keep our blood pressures down, I have requested assistance at Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems#Good faith disagreement. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 10:43, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have started a temporary page at Talk:Anglia Regional Co-operative Society/Temp. It is not my original work, but GFDL from a number of contributors. Therefore histories should be merged if the original article gets deleted. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 22:29, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Unfortunately, the temporary version still contains copyright infringement. The "Services" section infringes on http://www.cbronline.com/companies/anglia_regional_co_operative_society_limited?section=companyView and http://www.arcs.co.uk/main_members.asp?content=codiff. To quickly note similarities, look at the 2nd paragraph of the "Services" section and compare to the "Business section of the first url. From the second url, note the similarity in this sentence, "It has achieved this through organic expansion and through the acquisition of stores from other retail co-operative societies. Many of these stores are located well outside the Anglia region", to our article. Before we move a temporary page into this space that incorporates text by this contributor, I'm afraid that we will need to analyze it thoroughly to be sure it is original text. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 00:20, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think you'll find, if you check, that the text appeared here on 16 July 2007, before it did there, where it is (c) 2008. Chrisieboy (talk) 17:56, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Those dates, unfortunately, are not definitive. http://www.cbronline.com/ is also (c) 2008, but internet archives confirm that the page has been published since 2000. While we might give the benefit of the doubt that you had authored that passage and they had duplicated it if that were the only infringement in this case, given your duplication of copyrighted material here and in other articles, it will need to be removed or revised barring stronger evidence that ours was the first publication or that you copied it from a source that is public domain or GFDL compliant. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 18:30, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
So, in addition, the Internet Archive shows no evidence that the disputed text in the ARCS entry on that site was published before this article. On the other hand, it is fairly well known that other sites duplicate material from Wikipedia. You seem to be asking the impossible here...
In respect of the second sentence, I suggest: "This has been accomplished, in part, through the acquisition of branches from other retail co-operatives and, consequently, many are now situated further afield than the core East Anglia region." Chrisieboy (talk) 19:47, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you wish to contribute to the revision in the temporary space, feel free. When it has no material duplicative of other sites, we can move that into article space. If it does contain material duplicative of other sites, we will need to verify that the material is usable here, as unfortunately we cannot take your word for it. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:17, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

External link?[edit]

An unregistered editor added a link to http://co-opfurniture.com/ . This is a web store operated by ARCS, but it was reverted by an established editor. I would like to restore it, but I would first like to here the reasons for excluding it from the article. Unfortunately, it seems to be down right now, but you can find it in Google's cache --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 20:22, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My removal was initially caused by a mistake, as at first I thought it was a separate business. Once I realized my error, I considered restoring it but found that it is included on the front page of [1], which we've already linked. Since it seemed redundant and WP:EL reminds that "Wikipedia's purpose is not to include a comprehensive list of external links related to each topic", I didn't restore it. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:29, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't notice that link from the main ARCS home page. Thanks. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 22:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Why did we change this new logo (File:Anglia.jpg) for the older cloverleaf (File:Arcs.png)?

I know the society still uses the cloverleaf, but it has already re-branded the website, and is re-branding stores such as Orton.

I think the newer logo is better for a Wikipedia infobox, since it is more likely to be uncopyrightable as a {{PD-textlogo}}.

It may be useful for readers to include thumbnails and critical commentary of ARCS's uses of the cloverleaf logo in the body of the article. Does anyone have an otherwise free photo of a shop displaying ARCS "Co-op Local" brand?

--Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 09:54, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is the "full version" of the new logo. See, for instance, Annual Report and Accounts 2008. Chrisieboy (talk) 13:11, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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