Talk:And Tango Makes Three/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Copyediting

I took a bit from Roy and Silo and also cited the AP story. This is on Yahoo and will not be around for ever. Two weeks is about the limit. I'll see if I can find it elsewhere. Also, I went ahead and linked Incubator to Avian incubation since there is no article on avian incubators, just the one on Neonatal intensive care unit.

In the back of my mind, I think that this and Roy and Silo should somehow be merged. --EarthPerson 16:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I found another online source for the November 17 AP article, and cleaned up the section including recent additions. --Ginkgo100 talk 19:50, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Tangopenguin.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 09:17, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Controversy?

Does moving the book to the nonfiction section really count as controversy? Solar Flute (talk) 18:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps but the bigger issue is that controversy sections are discouraged so really all that content should be merged into the rest of the article. -- Banjeboi 23:01, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Controversy section needs to include the fact that the penguins are in a completely unnatural environment (a zoo), and that zoo life negatively psychologically affects many animals, so it is difficult to draw any conclusions as to whether or not this would even have happened out in the natural world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.115.7 (talk) 15:34, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

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Necessary Additional Background Information

A section that gives the background of Roy and Silo in real life and the actual story that occurred at the National Zoo in Central Park would be helpful, as well as additional information on the plot summary of the book. I would summarize the necessary additions with two main questions: -What is the actual story behind the two male penguins at the zoo and how does this effect public perception? -What other helpful information can be added to the plot summary of the book?Zac.schroepfer (talk) 14:42, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Critical Reception Section

The Reception section is heavily skewed towards the challenges & bans of the novel. Thus, a separate section only including the Critical Receptions of the novel is necessary. As well, if there should be a separate section for the Critical Receptions, there should also be a separate section for the value of the novel in classrooms, etc. Morganvr12 (talk) 14:44, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

The cases in the Critical Reception Section should be divided into Arguments For Banning the Book and Arguments Against Banning the Book and then expanded upon and cited more. The Freedom of Speech section should be moved under Arguments Against Banning the Book. Allisonsemands (talk) 17:41, 2 November 2016 (UTC)Allisonsemands

References for my Work

In case anyone has feedback to give, here are some sources I plan to pull from to improve the page.

Ann Doss Helms, AHELMS@CHARLOTTEOBSERVERCOM, STAFF WRITERS EMILY S ACHENBAUM, JEN ARONOFF, DEBORAH HIRSCH, LUKAS JOHNSON, CARRIE LEVINE, AMY RAINEY AND LENA,WARMACK CONTRIBUTED. "Picture Book is Banned by Cms - Story of Apparently Gay Penguins is Removed without Following Policy." Charlotte Observer, The (NC): 1A. Dec 20 2006. Web. Ann, Doss H. "Penguin Book Back in Schools - Cms Chief Calls it Error to Ban Same-Sex Story without Panel Review." Charlotte Observer, The (NC): 1B. Dec 21 2006. Web. ---. "Tango (Now 6) has Girlfriend." Charlotte Observer, The (NC): 1B. Dec 22 2006. Web. Foerstel, Herbert N. Banned in the U.S.A. : A Reference Guide to Book Censorship in Schools and Public Libraries. Westport, US: Greenwood Press, 2002. Web. Karolides, Nicholas J., Bald, Margaret., Sova,Dawn B.,. 120 Banned Books : Censorship Histories of World Literature. New York, NY: Facts on File, Inc., 2011. /z-wcorg/. Web. Observer Staff - Editorial. "`tango' Tangle - Book-Ban Decision Deserved More Consideration than it Got." Charlotte Observer, The (NC): 14A. Dec 21 2006. Web. The most Banned Children's Book of the Year: And Tango Makes Three. Dir. Richardson, Justin,, Parnell, Peter., Gale, David., Recorded Books,Inc., MyLibraryDV.,. Distributed by Recorded Books, MyLibraryDV, 2007. Scales, Pat,,. Books Under Fire : A Hit List of Banned and Challenged Children's Books., 2015. /z-wcorg/. Web. Young, Craig A.,. The Creation of Controversy: A Case Study of "and Tango Makes Three"., 2010. /z-wcorg/. Web.


Vlp5 (talk) 04:05, 14 November 2016 (UTC)vlp5

Background

I feel as if there should be more of a background on Roy and Silo and the incidence of homosexuality within the animal kingdom/Penguins. So I will be focusing on improving that background. I have gathered the following sources for this improvement of this section.

Richardson, Justin, Peter Parnell, and Henry Cole. And Tango Makes Three. New York: Simon & Schuster for Young Readers, 2005. Print.

Driscoll, Emily V. "Bisexual Species." Scientific American Mind 20.3 (2009): 20-5. Web. (http://web.b.ebscohost.com/ehost/detail/detail?vid=5&sid=f27f9291-4245-4faf-bafb-131b731d3d61%40sessionmgr120&hid=102&bdata=JkF1dGhUeXBlPWlwLHVpZCZzaXRlPWVob3N0LWxpdmUmc2NvcGU9c2l0ZQ%3d%3d#AN=40401025&db=aph)

By DINITIA SMITH. "Love that Dare Not Squeak its Name." New York Times (1923-Current file): B7. Feb 7, 2004 2004. ProQuest Historical Newspapers: The New York Times. Web. <http://search.proquest.com/docview/92826003?accountid=11091>.

Collins, Nick. "Tell the Truth about Gay Cuddling Chimps, Attenborough Asked." The Daily Telegraph: 13. Feb 9, 2013 2013. International Newsstand. Web. <http://search.proquest.com/docview/1285224954?accountid=11091>.

Zac.schroepfer (talk) 04:46, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Homosexuality in Children's Literature

I believe that one topic that would be essential to add to this wikipedia page would be one on the topic of homosexuality and children’s literature. I believe that this topic is what makes this book so unique, and therefore should be a focal point of focus within the book. I have provided the following citations for this.

Burke, Brianna R., and Kristina Greenfield. "Challenging Heteronormativity: Raising LGBTQ Awareness in a High School English Language Arts Classroom." English Journal 105.6 (2016): 46-51. Education Database. Web.

"Gay and Lesbian Literature and Studies." Encyclopedia of American Studies. MD, USA: Johns Hopkins University Press, 2016. Web.

Zac.schroepfer (talk) 04:48, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

New Edits to Page

I was not able to add the comments to the new organization and sections that I added to the page, so the following are my explanations:

-Rather than a plot synopsis section, I altered this to a background section that included the background story of Roy and Silo as well as a brief description of Sexuality in Animals and how this is relavent to Roy and Silo. I edited the grammatical structure of the lead in section of the "Reception" section. I added additional information to the Ankeny, Iowa case

Zac.schroepfer (talk) 15:34, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Subsection Addition

The page should be formatted to where the cases that result in censorship are similarly formatted to those that resulted in retainment, where in the beginning of the table of contents that sub title is defined.

Zac.schroepfer (talk) 07:17, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Reference additions - cite error

I noticed that the reference tag :2 is defined twice in the wikitext. Could someone who added references recently please sort out which usages correspond to which reference? Thanks, Thegreatgrabber (talk) contribs 00:08, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

So its actually not defined twice. There are two separate references (2 and 10) that refer to Simon and Schuster, the publisher, but tag 2 is about the book and tag 10 is about one of the authors. Allisonsemands (talk) 18:05, 5 December 2016 (UTC)Allisonsemands

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Reorganization of Background Information

Hi all,

I noticed that since this novel is based on a true story, it is unclear what is background information and what is plot summary. I intend to add a section with plot summary, and then edit and reorganize the section on background information to make it more neutral. I noticed the language in that section is a bit biased. As an example of a change I will make, I intend to change this quote, "The biggest difference between them and the other penguins was that the two penguins, Roy and Silo, were both males" to read like this, "Roy and Silo were both males".

Lizohazo (talk) 23:22, 2 October 2017 (UTC)


Confusing Wording and Removal of Unnecessary Language and Sentences

Hello all,

The sentence under the Scientific Explanations section, "Scientists also claim that, typically, animals in the animal kingdom are very unusually fully homosexual" and reword into to simpler words such as "animals tend to exhibit homosexual behavior" to make the phrasing less confusing.

I would take out the whole section "As sociologist Eric Anderson of the University of Bath in England says, “Animals don’t do sexual identity. They just do sex”." I do not believe this quotation offers any extra scientific knowledge. I would like to add to this section more information from a scientific viewpoint.

I would remove the Massachusetts case under "Cases Resulting in Censorship" because it seems unnecessary because it does not offer much insight on the topic.

Mimifrancis123 (talk) 02:39, 3 October 2017 (UTC)MimiFrancis

Invalid Sources

I noticed that a source on the reference no longer exists: http://www.asylum.com/2009/10/02/book-about-gay-penguins-is-most-banned-of-2008/

I also noticed these two sites look like blogs, which are no reliable enough for Wikipedia: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/11/top-library-complaint-story-about-same-sex-penguin-couple/ https://web.archive.org/web/20140827161739/http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/nlb-to-finetune-book/1295660.html

I intend the remove these references, and the information derived from them. I will hopefully replace them with more reliable sources.

Lizohazo (talk) 23:31, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Edit: After some deliberation I have concluded that the two news sources are in fact reliable enough for Wikipedia. Lizohazo (talk) 14:03, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Misplaced quote and Word choice

Hello, 

“	We wrote the book to help parents teach children about same-sex parent families. It's no more an argument in favor of human gay relationships than it is a call for children to swallow their fish whole or sleep on rocks.	”

— co-author Justin Richardson, New York Times (2005)[6]

This quote can currently be found in the section of "The Story of Roy and Silo", and I believe it should be under "The Authors". I also want to rename the section to "The True Story of Roy and Silo". I may also try to add the other edition to the basic information box. Lizohazo (talk) 15:47, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Restructuring of Reception and Proposed Value

Hi all, I would like to shorten the summaries of censorship cases under reception, particularly the long paragraphs that only have one source. I would also like to develop the proposed value section significantly. I hope to discuss value to society, families, and curriculums. My sources for that expanded section are below. My goal is to have the reception and proposed value sections be of equal length. I believe this is important so that the opposing viewpoints are given equal space in the article.

Works Cited

"Academic's Award for School Gay Rights Study." Northern Echo: 2. May 25, 2007 2007. International Newsstream. Web. <http://proxy.library.georgetown.edu/login?url=https://search.proquest.com/docview/329180354?accountid=11091>.

"Award-Winning Actor Neil Patrick Harris to Narrate AND TANGO MAKES THREE." PR Newswire: n/a. May 20, 2015 2015. US Newsstream. Web. <http://proxy.library.georgetown.edu/login?url=https://search.proquest.com/docview/1682012137?accountid=11091>.

"Banning Book would be Unwelcome Distraction." Des Moines Register: R.6. Nov 27, 2008 2008. US Newsstream. Web. <http://proxy.library.georgetown.edu/login?url=https://search.proquest.com/docview/237848897?accountid=11091>.

Burke, Brianna R., and Kristina Greenfield. "Challenging Heteronormativity: Raising LGBTQ Awareness in a High School English Language Arts Classroom." English Journal 105.6 (2016): 46-51. Education Database. Web.

Harvey, Jennifer. "And Tango Makes Three: Introducing Family Diversity to Children." Children & Libraries 11.3 (2013): 27-33. ProQuest Central. Web.

Howe, Andrew J. "Chinstrap Penguin." Antarctica and the Arctic Circle: A Geographic Encyclopedia of the Earth's Polar Regions. Ed. Andrew J. Hund. Santa Barbara, CA, USA: ABC-CLIO, 2014. Web.

Medved, Michael. "Preschoolers and Penguins: Propaganda Pawns ; when it Comes to our Culture War, can't we Spare our Children from the Crossfire?" USA TODAY: A.13. Nov 29, 2006 2006. US Newsstream. Web. <http://proxy.library.georgetown.edu/login?url=https://search.proquest.com/docview/409054340?accountid=11091>.

Stevenson, Deborah. "And Tango Makes Three." Bulletin of the Center for Children's Books 58.11 (2005): 508-9. Education Database. Web.

Van Horn, Selena E. ""how do You have Two Moms?" Challenging Heteronormativity while Sharing LGBTQ-Inclusive Children's Literature." Talking Points 27.1 (2015): 2-12. Education Database. Web.

Weeks, Sarah. "And Tango Makes three/you'Re Not My Real Mother!" New York Times Book Review Jun 19, 2005 2005: 15,7.15. US Newsstream. Web. <http://proxy.library.georgetown.edu/login?url=https://search.proquest.com/docview/217293624?accountid=11091>.

Thank you, Lizohazo (talk) 05:01, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Adding a case resulting in retainment

In the section "Case resulting in retainment", I found an interesting case where a woman from Lodi, California requested to ban the book from the Lodi Public Library because the cover of the book was deceptive. However, the book was retained. --Mna58 (talk) 18:16, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Adding a new theme

In the themes section, I am adding the theme of adoption which is something pivotal to the story line. I believe the message of a parents love for their children regardless of whether the child is biologically theirs is a message the authors are trying to portray throughout the book. This constantly shown through the affection that Roy and Silo show for the new member of their family. --Abdullahdabbagh (talk) 18:17, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Adding a small description about a few awards

Felt like it would be interesting to know a bit more about some of the awards. Giving a small description about why the awards are given and the meaning behind the awards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mna58 (talk • contribs) 18:35, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Removing Bias language

In the Themes section, there is bias language in the love section writing that the book is 'undoubtedly' a love story --Abdullahdabbagh (talk) 18:36, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Brief clarification about the mention of homosexuality in book

In the Authors intention section, I am adding a sentence in the end clarifying that throughout the book it is never clearly mentioned that Roy and Silo are homosexual simply showing the reader how close they were and how they are 'family'. --Abdullahdabbagh (talk) 18:43, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Proposed Changes to "And Tango Makes Three"

First I plan to streamline this article. I am going to do an overhaul on the sentence structure and syntax of each paragraph to make it flow better. The word choice is often either lengthy and complicated or it is incredibly repetitive. I plan to make the overall article more cohesive while also improving its legibility.

Then, I am going to edit the “Proposed Value” section of the article. It is a short section that features positive feedback from scholarly sources. I plan to delete that title and instead turn it into an “Analysis” section. Wikipedia notes that this section is very important in establishing the “impact of the book’s ideas”. Here I will keep what has already been written and add more about how scholars view the book. Then I will add an entire section dedicated to how teachers have found use for this book in the classroom, a crucial part of the books reception and impact.

After, I plan to streamline the “Response” section. There are far too many examples of instances where this book has been challenged or banned. I am going to narrow it to three examples for each subsection and each example will only be a few sentences.

I want to strengthen the “Themes" section as well, as it provides more context for why the book may be considered important to teach.

Bibliography Burke, Brianna R., and Kristina Greenfield. "Challenging Heteronormativity: Raising LGBTQ Awareness in a High School English Language Arts Classroom." English Journal 105.6 (2016): 46-51. Education Database. Web.

Dedeoglu, Hakan, Mustafa Ulusoy, and Linda L. Lamme. "Turkish Preservice Teachers' Perceptions of Children's Picture Books Reflecting LGBT-Related Issues." The Journal of Educational Research 105.4 (2012): 256. Education Database. Web.

Hardie, Ann. "Inclusive Primary School Libraries: Stories of Diverse Families." New Zealand Journal of Educational Studies 46.2 (2011): 95-102. Education Database. Web.

Harvey, Jennifer. "And Tango Makes Three: Introducing Family Diversity to Children." Children & Libraries 11.3 (2013): 27-33. Education Database. Web.

Isajlovic-Terry, Natasha, and Lynne (E F) McKechnie. "An Exploratory Study of Children's Views of Censorship." Children & Libraries 10.1 (2012): 38-43. Education Database. Web.

Miller, Alyson. "Unsuited to Age Group: The Scandals of Children's Literature." College Literature 41 (2014): 120+. Literature Resource Center; Gale. Web.

Möller, Karla,J. "Heather is 25! so, what Literature Featuring Gays and Lesbians is Available for Primary Grades Today?" Journal of Children's Literature 40.1 (2014): 62. Web.

Phillips, Donna Kalmbach, and Mindy Legard Larson. "Preservice Teachers Respond to and Tango Makes Three: Deconstructing Disciplinary Power and the Heteronormative in Teacher Education." Gender and Education 24.2 (2012): 159. Education Database. Web.

Van Horn, Selena E. ""How do You have Two Moms?" Challenging Heteronormativity while Sharing LGBTQ-Inclusive Children's Literature." Talking Points 27.1 (2015): 2-12. Education Database. Web.

--Cpb244 (talk) 03:27, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Proposed Edits By Tdonohue18

-Firstly I would like to reorganize the themes to be in the analysis subsection rather than the synopsis section. Given that the themes aren’t explicitly stated it is not as provable as a recap of the book. For this reason it should be put in the analysis section because people will better understand that this is the “generally agreed up” argument for what the book is about. -Update list of years that tango was on most challenged (there are more than what is currently listed) showing that even today it is still a contentious piece of literature -Putting the “background” section before the synopsis. This is the favored method by wikipedia, and may just be a better way to start the article. -Reworking the entire “Analysis” section. Including substantial new sources for the “benefits in the classroom” section + rewording. Also moving the “themes” section into the analysis. -Reworking the “Background” section into one larger piece then three separate pieces as each of the three given areas chosen all fed into each other. -Including a section dealing with the publication and advertising of the book as it came out at a time when homosexual couples were not frequently represented in media.


Bibliography:

-Sources are currently being adapted to being citations. Will be added in immediate future. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tdonohue18 (talk • contribs) 18:40, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Proposed Edits to "And Tango Makes Three" -I think it would be beneficial to the page if in the section that is titled "Analysis" there should be a section that includes the problems the book would cause in the classroom. Right now, the only discussion is concerning the benefits of teaching the book in the classroom and without a counter claim this could appear as bias. Ruthaxton (talk) 00:53, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Article Improvement

​Hi there BenTelerski. I'm Barkeep49 another editor around here, with a particular focus on children's literature. I see you'll be editing this article as part of one of your college courses. That's great - this article could use some help and attention. The fiction manual of style offers some great guidance about how a well written book encyclopedia article will look (this one has a lot of elements of that but is rather scattered). I also suspect that there is a lot more that can be written from the kinds of sources that you'll have access to through Georgetown's library - what you can add from there will no doubt make it better for future readers. Some of these are referenced in the section above by some previous WikiEd students but I don't think were ever really incorporated into the article itself. As you go about your work please feel free to reach out with any questions you might have. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:19, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Proposed Additions and Changes

I am planning on making some changes to the article in the coming weeks. First, I plan on rewriting the background section to eliminate unsourced material and clean up the existing information. I also will be rewriting the genre section to be easier for readers to understand, as it contains odd and confusing wording currently. I hope to bring the genre section more closely in line with Wikipedia's recommendations for articles about books, which includes discussion of how the book relates to other books by the same author. I will also be adding a section on publication history, with information directly from the publishing company. This will also bring the article closer to Wikipedia's recommendations for articles about books. --BenTelerski (talk) 16:27, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

These seem great. Thanks for your efforts to improve this Wikipedia article. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 04:13, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Reference Issues

Just a note, citations #11 and #20 are questionable. Both say they are from the Boston Globe, but upon further inspection appear not to be. If you follow their links, both land on low quality commercial sites, not the original articles. If anyone can find further information/a way to correct the citations that would be welcome.

Vlp5 (talk) 18:45, 9 November 2016 (UTC)vlp5


References to add "Censorship Dateline: Libraries." Newsletter on Intellectual Freedom (Online) 61.4 (2012): 153-7. ProQuest. Web. 13 Nov. 2016. "Gay Penguins have no Place in our Libraries, Say Parents." Telegraph.co.uk. Apr 13 2015. ProQuest. Web. 13 Nov. 2016. Karolides, Nicholas J., Bald, Margaret., Sova, Dawn B.,. 120 Banned Books : Censorship Histories of World Literature. New York, NY: Facts on File, Inc., 2011. /z-wcorg/. Web. Richardson, Justin, and Peter and Parnell. And Tango Makes Three. Simon & Schuster Children's Publishing, 2005. Print. Van Horn, Selena, E. ""how do You have Two Moms?" Challenging Heteronormativity while Sharing LGBTQ-Inclusive Children's Literature." Talking Points 27.1 (2015): 2-12. ProQuest. Web. 13 Nov. 2016. Allisonsemands (talk) 17:54, 13 November 2016 (UTC)allisonsemands

I just noticed that the archive link to citation #52 is not functioning, and the source information is inaccessible. The link is available here https://web.archive.org/web/20120229091443/http://www.myerscenter.org/. Agatesman (talk) 13:14, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Reception Suggestions

Under the Challenges section of the Wikipedia article the article lists cases throughout time in regards to challenges of And Tango Makes Three. This provides a perspective that challenges the purpose of the book. However, what I find to be an issue with this is that there are only two cases that come from an international standpoint, that being Singapore and Hong Kong. I suggest that if there are not more cases from an international perspective there should be more information put in about the cases of Singapore and Hong Kong. Although most of the criticism that arises from the book stems from the United States, I find it crucial to view this issue through an international lens to gain a stronger understanding of how other countries tackle issues of literacy censorship. Hoyae24 (talk) 13:41, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

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