Talk:Allegorical interpretations of Plato

Intro to new article

Hi, I’m a UK academic specializing in ancient Greek philosophy and do the occasional Wikipedia page. I was translating the article on the Pseudo-Platonic Horoi from the German Wikipedia, and noticed in the Plato Series Box that the English Wikipedia has several good articles on Plato’s famous allegories but no article on the long and important history of their interpretation, which has been an active area of scholarship for much of the last century. Herewith an outline treatment of that history with references to important scholarly works. Translations are my own unless otherwise noted. Please help make this better!JohnD'Alembert (talk) 11:53, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Discussion of cleaning up new article

Hi, I see the warning about too few references. I guess that it is complaining about the three opening paragraphs. I'll put in some more refs there and see if it helps (after I cook dinner!). Thanks, JohnD'Alembert (talk) 17:40, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

@SireWonton: Hi, SireWonton, thanks for your quick patrol of my new article and any help you can give to improve it.

Might I ask for more guidance about Allegorical Interpretations of Plato? Is this the best way to contact you?

1. The Multiple Issues box says too few citations. In the body of the article I try to put a note every sentence or two. Is the problem with the three opening paragraphs? Those are just a summary of what follows and so there are fewer notes. Is that alright? Should I add 'internal' refs to the sections below?

2. The Multiple Issues box says too many sections. The article surveys a lot of history, and I found the sections a good way of keeping the historical periods separate. I like it the way it is, but if you see a way to improve that please tell me more.

Any help appreciated, thanks, JohnD'Alembert (talk) 19:34, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Removed unnecessary tags, although this page may be a bit technical — Preceding unsigned comment added by SireWonton (talk • contribs) 19:53, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, SireWonton! I took your advice. The first paragraph is now a simpler, better intro. Then I went through the rest and made a bunch of small clarifications or simplifications. I aimed the article at the level of my undergraduate students, and I think it's pretty straight-forward now for anyone who is reading Plato. As BlueMist says below, I think it's in the range of other Wikipedia articles. As you suggested, I have taken out the 'too technical' box. Is that alright? Appreciate your help, JohnD'Alembert (talk) 10:55, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Discussion of possible extensions

Thanks JohnD'Alembert for an excellent addition to Wikipedia. While this article is more specialized than the bulk of the introductory philosophy pages, it is a fascinating subject, and it is not nearly as technical as many of the math and science pages.

Plato's allegories are multi-layered and thus are open to logical, literal, and to more imaginative interpretations. This poetic looseness is apparently purposeful, as allegories at least succeed in addressing a mixed audience of both logicians and various other folk, with a different message for each. Like Kahn, many contemporary Platonists have started to critically analyze Plato's philosophy. Are there any more recent advances on allegories specific to Plato? BlueMist (talk) 02:00, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind comment, BlueMist. This took more time than I expected, and it was lovely to see your quick encouragement. Yes, there is a lot of recent research on Plato and allegory (google), but I thought an encyclopedia article should stay away from live debates and just give the history of this topic. Thanks again, JohnD'Alembert (talk) 10:55, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

JohnD'Alembert, my point is that the history of Plato interpretation can only serve as background. The history of interpretation, which in the past has often been willfully reductive, is more of a negative than a positive aid to the Wikipedia reader. For allegories, the problem is to make consistent sense within Platonism. The problem is partially caused by the imprecise, hand wave nature of allegories, partially by the absence of explicit treatises from Plato, but also from determinate, syncretic efforts to incorporate Plato into the latest status quo.

The purpose of Wikipedia articles is to attract readers through providing content of interest. What is of interest is precisely the controversy coming from those few scholars who are attempting to revive Plato as Plato. If there is to be any future whatsoever for philosophy, then Plato cannot be just history. Current challenges by qualified scholars and replies to those challenges should not be ignored. BlueMist (talk) 16:06, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

BlueMist, yes, I share your view. Wikipedia is a wonderful, fascinating social project aiming at verifiable, reliable, and neutral knowledge. I just think the place for reviewing fast-changing, academic debates is elsewhere. Get thee to Google Scholar! Thanks, JohnD'Alembert (talk) 13:20, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Need to change name to use a small i in 'Interpretations' (in old article title)

Shouldn't this be under Allegorical interpretations of Plato (lowercase i) per Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Article_titles? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:00, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! I have now learned all about naming conventions and moving articles. As you see, the present title has a small i rather than a capital I, and some links were altered too. Is that alright?JohnD'Alembert (talk) 10:53, 17 November 2015 (UTC)