Talk:Alexander Alekhine/Archive 2

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Antisemitism?

The rather long and speculative bit on antisemitism is inappropriate for the Alekhine page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.192.9 (talk) 08:24, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

The article section that you referenced is supported by multiple references, so it is definitely not "speculative". Which of its claims do you consider dubious, and why? Toccata quarta (talk) 08:52, 10 October 2013 (UTC)


On Jan 1,2017 we will know, maybe. I have always heard - for decades - that Alekhine was anti-Semitic - but I didn't know it was on such flimsy evidence. 2601:181:8000:D6D0:E019:7E58:DF3E:731 (talk) 23:44, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

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Date of Birth

Most sources, including his gravestone, give his birth as November 1 Thisdaytrivia (talk) 02:14, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

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Loss of the World title (1935–37)

I find the first sentence of this section dubious: why would Alekhine, as the World Champion, challenge Euwe? It's much more natural that the reverse occurred, and Euwe challenged Alekhine. Can anyone verify or source the statement? If it's indeed the case that Alekhine challenged Euwe, an explanation for Alekhine's weird behaviour would be great. Banedon (talk) 09:43, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

A Chessbase article does say that it was Alekhine who challenged Euwe, having issued it in 1933. My understanding was that Alekhine was picking his challengers. Jkmaskell (talk) 10:32, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Do you have a link to the article? Banedon (talk) 14:57, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
It was "Alekhine-Euwe 1935: powerful images" by Albert Silver, 2013. The problem is that I have seen a quote elsewhere saying it was the other way round (Google Books, cant remember which one). There was a mention that Purdy wrote tournament books for the two Euwe matches so they seem a very good place to look on this question, maybe even Fine, which is mentioned as a source in that bit of the Wiki. The timeline seems odd in that Euwe accepted the challenge in 1933 but didn't play the match until after Alekhine faced Bogoljubow. I have no answers, just thinking out loud. Jkmaskell (talk) 21:42, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Max Euwe: The Biography by Alexandr Münninghoff confirms that it was Alekhine who issued the challenge to Euwe in 1933:

Euwe was as good as his word. He had made up his mind, so he stayed at home during this summer of 1933. [...] Invitations for all kinds of tournaments and simultaneous displays kept arriving [...], but were all kindly but firmly refused. Inexplicably, one of these letters does not get an immediate reply. It is an invitation from no less a person than Alekhine: he wants to play a match against Euwe, similar to their 1927 encounter – but this time on a big passenger ship to the Dutch Indies and back, with a lot of pomp and circumstance. Five games on the way there, five during the return voyage. The stake: the world championship if need be. Alekhine was clearly in no doubt about his superiority. Normally a prompt correspondent, Euwe puts this offer from the World Champion aside for a moment and then forgets about it. It will be months before he is accidentally reminded of it.

It goes on to say that Euwe also skipped Hastings, and this prompted his friend Hans Kmoch, «one evening in 1934» after spotting Euwe on the street from his favourite bar, to point him out that Alekhine had been losing edge lately and told Euwe that he should postpone his retirement from chess to capitalise on the moment. Then:

At that point, Euwe suddenly remembered Alekhine's letter from some months earlier. Not replied to, strangely enough [...] Returning home he gave Kmoch, who had accompanied him, the letter to read. The Austrian, in the meantime, had won the day. Euwe himself says of this occasion: “(...) at that point the decision had in fact been made: I would challenge Alekhine to a match for the world championship! [...]”

The news of Euwe's return to competitive chess aiming at the world title spread through the chess world, chess sponsors in Holland were easy to come by, as predicted by Kmoch, and an Alekhine-Euwe match committee was set up. Sophia91 (talk) 04:24, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Infobox photo

Since May 27, 2012, we have been using 

 Alexandre Alekhine Color.jpg

Before that we were using a non-colorized version of the same photograph: 

 Alexandre Alexhine 01.jpg

(Still further back, we were using a photo of his gravestone.)

Now editor User:SKIBLY101 would like to switch to 

 Alex. Alekhine LCCN2014717091.jpg

which appears to be the same photograph, but not expanded or colorized.

Since the present photo has been in place for some years, I am going to the talk page to get opinions on which photo is more appropriate.

I am happy with the expanded, colorized version. Though it is expanded, the resolution is adequate for an infobox. The non-expanded version I find to be hard to view. I do not have a strong opinion about the colorization, but it does not seem bad. Bruce leverett (talk) 20:07, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Generally I'm not in favour of using colourised photos. We should use photos in their original format, not someone's artwork. Colourising photos is a kind of original research. We have a precedent in using the black and white rather than the colour photo in the Fischer article. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 02:29, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
I did a little original research of my own to try to work out where the photo came from. Given that the photo came from the George Grantham Bain collection at the Library of Congress, and the Edward Lasker display in the background, it was almost certainly taken in the United States. The position appears to be a hyper-accelerated Dragon after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 and possibly 4....Bg7 (the seventh and 8th ranks are not visible). chessgames has two Alekhine games with this position, both simuls, one in New York and one in London. It may have come from Lasker-Steiner, blindfold simul 1924, but obviously he's not blindfold in the pic. It could be a posed pic from the same visit. How many times did Alekhine visit the US and in what years? MaxBrowne2 (talk) 22:05, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
Another clue that points to the United States is the flag draped by the window. Alekhine and Edward Lasker both played in New York 1924, so the photo might have been posed during (or soon after or just before) that tournament. Alekhine also played in New York 1927; if the photo was from then, then the Edward Lasker thingy would be unrelated. Bruce leverett (talk) 22:41, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
The hair line might give a clue whether it was taken in 1924 or 1927, but 1924 looks the most likely. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 23:46, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
  • So how about we use the cropped black and white pic (Alexandre Alexhine 01.jpg), credit it to the Bain Collection and note that it was taken in New York 1924? Or is that too much OR? MaxBrowne2 (talk) 08:51, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
I was going to wait a bit; it can take a long time for stragglers to come in when you're waiting for consensus.
I definitely don't want to mention the Bain Collection in the Infobox. People who care about provenance can just click on the picture.
Yes, it's OR at this point to claim New York 1924. It is nice to give a date, but it's plainly optional, as I see from looking around at other Wiki biographies of chess players. Bruce leverett (talk) 15:45, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Well, I made my WP:BOLD edit as there were a few days with no discussion. Go ahead and do what you think is appropriate. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 20:16, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Buenos Aires 1939

Alekhine won the silver medal for 1st board.

No. Alekhine did not win anything. There were no second or third board prices at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.248.36.12 (talk) 16:22, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

What is your source for this? Bruce leverett (talk) 18:42, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Justin Corfield: Pawns in a Greater Game: The Buenos Aires Chess Olympiad, August - September 1939, p. 294/295.91.248.36.12 (talk) 00:12, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

It would be good to edit this article to conform to what Corfield's book says (and, of course, to cite the book). If you have any questions about how to do this, please ask. Bruce leverett (talk) 00:44, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

That won't do any good. All the world is blindly copying from olimpbase. The Germans received no gold medals in Buenos Aires, but next to the Hamilton Russell Cup a scaled down version for each team member.91.248.32.208 (talk) 19:41, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

I would be happy to "fix" this myself, but I don't have a copy of Corfield's book.

Olimpbase doesn't lean heavily on gold, silver, and bronze; the table just says "Best Board Results". Our own Wikipedia article about the Buenos Aires Olympiad doesn't mention board medals, and only gives the best score for each board, not the top three. One could modify this article by, for example, replacing "Alekhine won the individual silver medal" with "Alekhine had the second-highest score on first board". One could even add a footnote about not receiving medals, but that would be optional. Bruce leverett (talk) 20:31, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

List of unsolved deaths

Added to the above list article. Let me know if there are any issues with the summation. Kind regards, Willbb234Talk (please {{ping}} me in replies) 13:16, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

The cited source (Chessbase article) ends up pretty much dismissing the conspiracy theories. I would recommend that Alekhine not be included in the list article. Of course, if the list article is supposed to include every celebrity death about which any sort of rumor has circulated, regardless of plausibility, then sure, this one is good enough. Bruce leverett (talk) 17:51, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Seeing as the article says The cause of death could not be officially determined then I think it should be included seeing as there is dispute about whether it was a heart attack or choking. I agree about the conspiracy - I'll remove. Willbb234Talk (please {{ping}} me in replies) 18:19, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Arrest

There are various versions of the story of his arrest. [1] Mcljlm (talk) 15:48, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://jewishchesshistory.blogspot.com/2009/09/alekhine-escaping-execution-definite.html
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