Talk:Abydos, Egypt

Untitled

• Anyone object to this article being rewritten – it is a bit of a mess, and rather confusing, especially as this is one of the most important places in Ancient Egypt mythology. The rewrite will be at Abydos, Egypt/temp Markh 10:19, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

26-Aug-2006: The current article, "Abydos, Egypt" has been expanded greatly, surpassing the article 'Abydos, Egypt/temp' which is only a stub. -Wikid77 09:47, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

It is because I haven't added anything since I created the temp article. Markh 10:57, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

--- QUERY: I don't know how to edit the photos, but if someone can edit the ones on the Abydos, it is the one on the right hand side of the page (near the "temple of Seti I"), and should read: "Panel from the Osiris temple: Horus being presented royal regalia by Seti I." This act is part of the Daily Ritual, known as the /rdit wAs HqA nxAxA iry awy iry rdwy/, 'giving of the wAs scepter, crook and flail, bracelets, and anklets', and is episode 28 of the Ritual. If someone could change that wording, it would be correct. (This scene is most likely from the Horus Chapel of the 6 deity chapels, but I can't be as certain about that, since Horus has two chapels in the temple). Many thanks. Kgriffisgreenberg (talk) 15:44, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Wiki issues

26-Aug-2006: The following issues relate to Wiki formatting rules, which are still debated:

• Lower-cased Headers: Although Wiki headers are wikified to lower-case after the first word, note that "Great Temple" is a proper noun, so "Temple" has been re-upcased in the header. I feel that headers should have capital words, as in standard grammar and punctuation, because wikified as lower-case seems way spastic, with more problems having to guess which words are the proper nouns that will be capitalized. -Wikid77 09:59, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
• Image Locations: As of August 2006, Wiki display might still truncate text around images, depending on multiple images near each other. I had to separate the Hieroglyphs-image from the Egypt-map-image on the page, since text was being cut off next to those images. -Wikid77 10:06, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The Hieroglyphs seem to have vanished from the article and yet they are still mentioned in the paragraph text. The main picture should hardly be the Osirion but the temple itself, I have taken some more pictures of Abydos http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Merlin-UK#Abydos_-_Temple_of_Osiris, if any are useful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Merlin-UK (talk • contribs) 19:37, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Superb photos.--Charles (talk) 20:19, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Sacred Head of Osiris

What the heck is that? I've cross-referenced it and can't find a thing. Is it the same as the "Tower of Osiris"? Or is it relating to a myth? --Laveaux 19:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC) This related to the myth - osiris was killed and his body cut into several pieces, the head was buried at Abydos hence Abydos is the cult centre for Osiris —Preceding unsigned comment added by Merlin-UK (talk • contribs) 19:33, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Temple of Osiris (helicopters and modern things)

Is there already an article for this? Because if so, it should be linked to here, if not, we need something about it, because it is a documented notable place for its glyphs of the helicoper, hovercraft, spaceship, and jet. Queerbubbles (talk) 23:51, 12 February 2008 (UTC) By dating the erosion on this part on the stone carving the whole area should be in the same state and there for also had to be rewritten and not only exactly this part. (Sumerian tablets and in genesis and many other religions they talk about this subject through history) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.124.50.50 (talk) 21:42, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Archaeology in the area

I was linked here from this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lastavatar/3274546324/in/pool-archaeologyinaction and I thought it was awesome (hoping the link works). Is there any information available about the archaeology in the area? Information on that would be an interesting addition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.220.104.207 (talk) 03:40, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Removal of section

I've removed this section

The "mysterious" hieroglyphs in Temple of Seti I

The mysterious hieroglyphs in Temple of Seti I. which are said to represent modern vehicles as a helicopter, a submarine, a zeppelin and a glider.

Some of the hieroglyphs carved over an arch on the site have been interpreted in esoteric and "ufological" circles as depicting modern technology.

Often described as a helicopter, a battle tank or submarine, and a fighter plane or even a U.F.O. But this is partly based on widely distributed retouched images that removed key details from the carvings. When examining the original hieroglyphs the provocative images are commonly explained as being the result of erosion, and later adjustments, or re-writing over the original inscriptions that left parts of the older text visible creating the illusion of modern-looking machines. Pharaoh's Helicopter? "Helicopter Hieroglyph" Explained!

It looks like it should be under Temple of Seti instead of its own section, but note that none of the sources actually mention this as a location.

Actually, one of the sources mentions it as coming from the 'Temple of Osiris' instead. Whilst looking at those I noticed that they were both self-published, plus the section probably doesn't belong in this article, so I've taken it out. It could of course have a place if it was discussed in some reliable sources. See also Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (history).

--Michael Billington (talk) 10:45, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm taking the text provisionally to its own article, as we have stand-alone articles on most famous OOPArts. --Againme (talk) 16:51, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I agree this section on the "Abydos helicopter" should remain out (I have answered this issue just about every time it's come up for discussion: it's a palimpsest and does not reflect "ancient aircraft"). However, for editorial reference, the glyphs in question appear on the lintels of the central doorways leading into the First Hypostyle Hall of the temple: usually the bawab (gatekeeper) of the temple will point them out, but they are about 20+ feet above the floor and difficult to see without a telescopic lens. With such a lens, you can see the overlay of the glyphs more clearly. Kgriffisgreenberg (talk) 14:27, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Relief

The section 'Tombs' is accompanied by a photo of an Egyptian relief; the caption states that the Pharaoh is Seti and the prince is Ramesses (II). However the summary for the photo in Wikipedia Commons states that the Pharaoh in the relief is Ramesses II, and the prince another name. I had intended to fix the punctuation in the caption, but it seems that the prince (whoever he is), rather than the Pharaoh, is closer to capturing the bull. But I'm no expert on Egyptian reliefs, so I've left the whole matter unchanged. 203.6.146.5 (talk) 08:33, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

This photo replaced one which I took showing that the pharaoh is swinging a lasso in his raised hand. I never knew the identity of the figures though.--Charles (talk) 09:32, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

The relief is located in the passageway to the Osireion within the temple of Seti I, and referred to as the "lassoing of the Great Bull." It is that of Seti I (adult) with his son, Ramses (as a youth). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kgriffisgreenberg (talk • contribs) 14:18, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Apzu?

The Egyptian word for Abydos (Greek word) is Abdju as seen in the first paragraph of this article. This is Phonetically identical to the Sumerian Apzu; the "dj" in Egyptian being pronounced as a "z" Wcichello (talk) 21:17, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Any academic sources making saying the word is related to the Sumerian Apzu? Doug Weller talk 15:39, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

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Forbiden Kings list

There is some especulation on the drawings in front of the oficial list of pharaons. It should be noted as clues of older egypt history.--JKim (talk) 19:56, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Split proposed

129.89.234.101 has proposed a new article for Abydos King List (Ramesses II). I really don't see why it's necessary to have a separate article. The surviving entries on Ramesses' list match those on Seti's list (unsurprisingly, given that Ramesses' list was almost certainly either copied from his father's list next door or based on the same papyrus original). If we had an article about Ramesses' temple at Abydos, the king list would belong there, but because we don't, the duplicate list can be covered as a section in Abydos King List. Given my mergist sympathies, having a separate article for Ramesses' list strikes me as just creating articles for the sake of creating articles, reminiscent of the silly effort to have an article for every fragmentary ancient New Testament manuscript. A. Parrot (talk) 15:40, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• Well, I think the section on Ramesses King's List should be split off. Seti's king list already has a separate page, so why not Ramesses? Plus other languages on Wikipedia already have Ramesses King's list in a separate page, so why not here?

129.89.234.101 (talk) 14:58, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

129.89.234.101 A. Parrot I would agree that an article devoted to the list would be welcomed. It would offer the space required to present and discuss it thoroughly, especially given its importance as an historical source in Egyptian chronology. The fact that this list and that of written under Seti I are similar is not an argument in my mind, in fact in most chronology books and articles I have seen, both lists are counted separately, i.e. as 2 supporting historical sources for such and such order of succession between kings. On a more prosaic tone, the number of articles referring specifically to one or either lists is extremely large (almost all pharaohs mentioned come to my mind), meaning that a split would imply an important editorial work on all those articles.Iry-Hor (talk) 09:47, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

I defer to your greater knowledge of the chronological sources. But what should the new article be titled? How do the sources refer to the two lists, to distinguish them from each other? A. Parrot (talk) 13:38, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Other Wikipedia languages have Ramesses's list as "Abydos King List (Ramesses II)", so it's better to make the title consistent. 129.89.234.101 (talk) 14:51, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

So... Are we spliting the section off or what? 129.89.234.101 (talk) 14:30, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm open to splitting, but I'd like to come up with a better title if possible. Having one article called "Abydos King List" and another called "Abydos King List (Ramesses II)" feels awkward to me. That's why I asked Iry-Hor how the sources name Ramesses II's list, but his Wikipedia activity is intermittent these days, and he hasn't replied. I'll have to go digging through my sources for references to Ramesses' list. A. Parrot (talk) 14:50, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

129.89.234.101 Here's a idea, some sources use the title "Fragmentary Abydos King's List", which can work since Ramesses's list is incomplete and damaged while Seti's list is intact and complete. Maybe that can work better than "Abydos King List (Ramesses II)"

A. Parrot What do you say? 72.128.66.229 (talk) 01:42, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

72.128.66.229 I wouldn't be opposed to your suggestion. 129.89.234.101 (talk) 14:02, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

I've carried out the split, to the original suggested title. I'm not firmly committed to the title, as I still don't know how the sources refer to this list. The only source I found with some detail about the list refers to the Seti I and Ramesses II as different copies of the same text, which makes me think merging the two articles may be advisable, but it's not enough on its own to base a decision on. It seems the real authoritative source would be Pharaonic King-lists, Annals, and Day-books: A Contribution to the Study of the Egyptian Sense of History (1986) by [[Donald B. Redford, which I don't have and can't access except in snippet view. A. Parrot (talk) 01:17, 18 April 2024 (UTC)