Category talk:Hebrew Bible

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Ancient Near East

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Category structure for Hebrew Bible, Bible and Old Testament[edit]

See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 June 29#Tanakh for the discussion that led to the creation of this category. Previously, all articles about Hebrew Bible subjects were being categorised twice using similar category names reflecting Jewish and Christian naming. This was created to replace Category:Tanakh and to avoid the need for Category:Old Testament appearing on the same pages.

All "Category:Hebrew Bible xxx" categories are designed to be members of "Category:Old Testament xxx" to avoid duplication of Jewish and Christian categories. This Category:Hebrew Bible should therefore be left within Category:Old Testament.

Normally, Category:Bible would not be required as a head category for Category:Hebrew Bible because there is an intermediate category:Old Testament, which is relevant to Christians; however, in this case, out of respect for Jewish readers/editors, this category:Hebrew Bible should also be left directly within Category:Bible.

There are category-description templates on both Hebrew Bible and Old Testament category pages to explain the use of these category names. – Fayenatic (talk) 14:38, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Review of category structure[edit]

User:Monochrome Monitor has broken this structure, describing it as "incredibly stupid".[1] IMHO it was fine and should be reinstated. – Fayenatic London 10:15, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion has been listed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Bible. 10:19, 27 May 2015

This same editor User:Monochrome Monitor has been doing the same thing, i.e. editing recklessly and without reliable sources, in a series of Hebrew Bible related articles (such as Historicity of the Bible), as if s/he were a complete (self-nominated) authority on this subject/area. His editing activity should be reviewed and revised, and probably also curbed somehow, in my view. warshy ^(¥¥) 14:27, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's nice. Care to specify what I added on "historicity of the bible" which is false? Also, I stand by my assertion that having "Hebrew Bible" in the Category "Old Testament" is incredibly stupid. --Monochrome_Monitor 14:37, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

According to your userpage you are a Christian, so I'll make a comparison. Having "Hebrew Bible" (Tanakh) in the Category "Old Testament" (a Marcionist/Supercessionist term) is like putting "Christian Bible" in the category Islamic texts under the subcategory Tahrif. I'm not even an observant Jew and I'm offended. Regardless of feelings though, putting Hebrew Bible it in the category Old Testament is just bizarre, since it is the Old Testament which uses the Hebrew Bible as a source text. --Monochrome_Monitor 14:58, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sensitivity was recognised in the CFD discussion linked above, but consensus was clear. I do not understand why you consider it bizarre to put HB categories within OT categories. What would you suggest? The point of the Hebrew Bible categories is explained in the section above; see the chart within the CFD for a graphical explanation of the structure. Would you go back to having duplicate categories, e.g. to put all pages that are currently in the shared Category:Prophets of the Hebrew Bible instead into both Category:Prophets of the Tanakh and Category:Prophets of the Old Testament? – Fayenatic London 16:16, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think there's an alternative. Like the Category "Bible". --Monochrome_Monitor 01:29, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That is insufficient, as it does not put the contents such as Category:Torah back into category:Old Testament. Please expand on what you are proposing instead. I note that you have so far removed this Category:Hebrew Bible from Old Testament, but have not made corresponding changes lower down the hierarchy, e.g. Category:Hebrew Bible people remains within Category:Old Testament people. Is it only for this category:Hebrew Bible that you find it offensive and incredibly stupid to categorise within OT? If a significant number of editors are offended, we could use a "see also" link provide the necessary navigation from OT to this category. However, if you intend to break the entire structure, we need to publicise this discussion more widely to gain more participation. – Fayenatic London 17:45, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There is no reason that there should be duplicate categories in the first place. Only "Hebrew Bible____" should be kept, as it is the scholarly term for "Old Testament". --Monochrome_Monitor 19:33, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please wait for consensus before making changes that break the hierarchy. If you want to nominate Category:Old Testament and all its subcats for deletion, WP:CFD tells you how to do that. Otherwise, please respect the prior consensus. "Hebrew Bible" excludes Apocrypha; do you have an alternative scholarly term that embraces subjects from the apocrypha? – Fayenatic London 22:30, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]