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Challenge Cup semi final

Request Challenge Cup semi final be moved to draft space as article is incomplete and unreferenced. Mn1548 (talk) 20:20, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

To be honest, it should probably be sent to AfD, as it's already been PROD'ed a couple of times. Semi finals aren't really notable enough to be considered anything more than trivia. J Mo 101 (talk) 23:51, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

If we take FA Cup semi-finals, the Challenge Cup article has the potential to be a well written article, but agree it shouldn't exist in the mainspace in its current state. Mn1548 (talk) 09:24, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

No further discussion will move to draft for now. Mn1548 (talk) 09:54, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Phil Lowe

Was his move to Manley a loan, if KR had the power to recall him after three years? Mn1548 (talk) 15:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Manly paid £15,000 to sign Lowe for three years, after which he would either return to Rovers on a free transfer, or stay with Manly a further two years if an additional £10,000 was paid (which of course the two clubs later disagreed over). I don't think it was really a loan, the RFL were still using the Retain and transfer system at the time, so presumably Rovers kept him on the club register so he couldn't sign for another club when he returned to England. J Mo 101 (talk) 15:51, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Cheers, thanks. Mn1548 (talk) 13:00, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Incorrect DOBs added by User:Hugh 3476

Just a friendly reminder to adhere to WP:RELIABILITY and WP:NOR when editing, and to check for incorrect information in articles if possible! I've noticed several players of the pre-WWII era had unsourced DOBs listed which were incorrect and not even similar to the correct date. It appears these were added by User:Hugh 3476 (since banned for unrelated reasons) around 2018-19 and remained on the pages uncontested ever since. Some examples:

• Roy Bossi: Hugh's edit, my correction
• Tom Nevin: Hugh's edit, my correction
• Charles Rice (rugby league): Hugh's edit, my correction
• Stan Robinson (rugby league): Hugh's edit, my correction
• Clarrie Tupper: Hugh's edit, my correction

Narkova (talk) 10:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Moral of the story, any IP that's 1.14x.xxx.xxx, or 1.12x.xxx.xxx be suspicious of. Local Potentate (talk) 21:51, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Asia-Pacific Rugby League contradiction

Infbox states organisation is based in Brisbane whereas history section says it is based in Auckland. Both are unsourced. Mn1548 (talk) 16:19, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Someone changed it to Brisbane without a source. I've switched it back as the official site says Auckland. J Mo 101 (talk) 17:45, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

List of Hull F.C. players

I'm currently working on an update for this article (last updated in 2018), there's been a large turnover of players since then!

I'll be adding all new players since then, using Heritage Numbers | Hull FC as my primary reference, alongside other sources.

As part of this refresh, I plan to add a Heritage No. column (to bring it in line with corresponding lists articles for Featherstone, Oldham, Halifax, Leeds, Saints etc, plus the Aussie clubs).

I've been in touch with J Mo 101, who has put me straight on Heritage No. in the main player articles, so thanks for that.

Before I press the button, does anyone have any objections, or advice? All feedback gratefully received.

Robinson Drinkald (talk) 11:45, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

The only thing I would note is that the page is already quite large (over 300kb), which can slow down loading times etc, but removing all the duplicate links in the season columns would help with that. No issues otherwise, editing those huge lists can be a bit of a mammoth task, so appreciate the effort!. J Mo 101 (talk) 13:17, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Player infobox clarification

Regarding notability of clubs in rugby league players' infoboxes per MOS - rule "Players 3.a.ii" is in desperate need of clarification. I have noticed removal / absence of NSW Cup and Queensland Cup club statistics based off the fact that they are second tier competitions, despite being more notable clubs (rule 3.a.i) and actually having a Wikipedia page (rule 3.a.iii) than other clubs that would theoretically qualify with rule 3.a.ii. For example, as currently written, Lillestrøm Lions would qualify under rule 3.a.ii (as they are a Norwegian FIRST division team) but not Western Suburbs Magpies (as they are an Australian SECOND division team). In short, the rule excludes clubs that are way more notable than some of the clubs it includes. Mn1548 (talk) 22:11, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

It could be time to review and update the MOS as it was written in 2008. The talk page archives for the infobox show various discussions from the time about what the infobox should include, but consensus on this may have changed given that most of the editors involved are no longer active and several of them were the same editor (later banned as a sockpuppet). EdwardUK (talk) 03:47, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

I honestly had no idea that MOS page even existed. My understanding has always been that the following should be included:

• UK: All teams in the top three divisions
• Australia: NRL teams only (or NSWRL/Brisbane League for pre-NRL). Modern day Queensland Cup teams etc are generally excluded as they are considered "reserve grade" (with most of them being NRL feeder clubs).

There isn't really a consensus for clubs in other countries, as far as I know, but really obscure/amateur clubs should obviously be removed regardless of division. J Mo 101 (talk) 18:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

For other countries and lower level competitions a lack of sources could be a problem. I would not be opposed to including NSW/Queensland Cup teams and there are sources for them on sites like RugbyLeagueProject. This would be helpful for internationals playing for teams like PNG for whom the infobox would otherwise be almost empty if all their club appearances are for PNG Hunters. For affiliated clubs the names are easy to distinguish from the NRL sides, but to avoid confusion between NRL and their reserve grade sides their stats could be listed separately and marked as such by adding (NSW) after the team name (similar to how loans/dual registrations are noted). EdwardUK (talk) 21:30, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

"This would be helpful for internationals playing for teams like PNG for whom the infobox would otherwise be almost empty if all their club appearances are for PNG Hunters" This sums up my issue perfectly. Say for instance a player played for Brisbane Broncos for a few years, had a dip in form when over to PNG Hunters for a few years, then returned to the NRL, the missing stats would give the impression that said played abandoned the sport for those years in the Queensland Cup at first glance, especially for a reader unfamiliar with the topic. Even more important, for players spending their entire carer in the NSW / Queensland Cup. Mn1548 (talk) 22:24, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm not qualified to speak on other countries, but am happy with the guidelines about NSW/Q Cup not being included as they are at a "reserve grade" level, as J Mo said. Doctorhawkes (talk) 11:54, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Are there sources to support this? No NRL reserve teams actually complete in the Queensland Cup, and the reserve teams competing in the NSW Cup doesn't necessarily make it a reserve competition (see my Real Madrid analogy below). Mn1548 (talk) 22:41, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Hence the quotation marks. Obviously it's a lower level competition, though. Details of lower grade competition can be covered in the article, but trying to distinguish in the infobox between a NSW Cup and NRL team with players playing for both simultaneously sounds ugly and misleading. And, honestly, I believe the average reader cares very little. The soccer examples just sound like WP:OTHERSTUFF. Doctorhawkes (talk) 07:52, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Are there any sources to say that NSW / Queensland Cup are reserve grade competition? Obviously some NRL teams play there reserve sides in those tournaments, but they also have clubs whose first teams play in them also. Comparing to football, to me, its like like how Real Madrid Reserves compete in the Spainsh third tier (a senior competition) where as Manchester United Reserves compete in Professional Development League (a dedicated reserve competition). Mn1548 (talk) 22:18, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Just giving another example of the problems with the current system. PNG Hunters: currently stats from this club are not included because they are competing in "reserve grade", however if they opted to compete in the PNGNRL (their home league and a "first grade" competition) then we would despite the fact they would be arguably, a less notable club. Mn1548 (talk) 22:43, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Preprogram teams?

This is a bit tangential to the above, so I'm going to split it out here. If the intention is to only list certain clubs and certain levels of play, would it make sense to have the infobox disallow any team that does not fit that billing? In other words, if |club1=Team A and |club2=TeamB were input, but only TeamB was an "acceptable" team, Team A wouldn't be listed. If I've totally misread the intention of the above discussion feel free to trout me and hat this. Primefac (talk) 12:02, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

It could be done, but the team list would be quite long and complicated if it had to take into account historic team names, piped links to the current names, and things like nowrap templates and loan/DR arrows. EdwardUK (talk) 19:32, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I do suppose that would be more useful as a "brand new infobox" territory where we could get it working the way we wanted right out of the gate. Retrofitting thousands of transclusions to ensure they match what we "want" is going to be more hassle than it's worth... Primefac (talk) 19:40, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

That would definitely add consistency to infoboxes of all players if it would be done. But would need a strong concensus and regular updating as it could end up being too indiscriminate. Mn1548 (talk) 22:27, 29 May 2024 (UTC)